Coffee Talk
Phil Keaggy and Wes King
transcribed by Roberta Croteau
There we were in downtown Franklin, Tennessee, at the ultra-swell Caffe Milano sipping some java, when who should walk in but the two guitar-kings 'o town, Phil Keaggy and Wes King. They sidled up to a little table, ordered a coulple of lattes and sat down like two old friends for a good catch-up chat. Never one to miss an opportunity to catch all the latest dirt on our favorite Christian artists, we deftly propped up a tape deck next to the guys and then called in a photographer to capture the event. They didn't even know we were there, even when we threw in the pertinent, creative questions and dabbed their foreheads with powder. Anyway, it went something like that. Here's what we overheard...
Wes: I think the first time we played together was that benefit at the Bluebird Cafe.
Phil: You and who else, Gary Chapman?
Wes: Just me, you and Gary sitting around.
Phil: We just jammed around. I joined in on some of the songs you guys were doing.
Wes: Yeah, and I tried to join in on some of yours, but I realized that it was impossible.
Phil: My strange chords? The things is, where I sometimes feel like I lack in songwriting skill, I try to make up for it with the jamming concept with improvisation. You know when I did this last tour with Twila, we did like 32 cities, and one night I decided not to do anything with any of my special effects. I just went in there and plugged into the P.A. No encumbrances. Sometimes electronics, effects, processors, and all that really enhance what you do, but sometimes they can get in the way. Sometimes they become a crutch for me.
Phil (still): The first time we got together....we did a concert in either Missouri or Oklahoma, do you remember?
Wes: Yeah, that was years ago.
Phil: I remember the first time I saw you. You were in the back seat doing impressions of famous people.
Wes: I was trying to win you.
Phil: Yow won me big time! That was the first time I really got to hear you play. You were accompanying Kim Hill. No...there was another time you did a solo concert.
Wes: I can't remember, but it was somewhere in Missouri.
Phil: Then we got together at your apartment at Ridgelake.
Wes: Yeah, I can't believe you remeber that!
Phil: I remember that song that we were about to write together then we went our separate ways and I couldn't wait till we got together.
Wes: I heard the song later, and I thought, I almost had a part of that.
Phil: That was the song, "That's When The Wild Winds Blow." We're going to have to try to....actually, you know a great way to write a song is just to have the day when my kids will be in school, I get a little eight track, and then commit.
Wes: You just sit down, and you don't get up until you've got something completed.
Phil: Yeah, something you can come back to...you can't wait to finish it...
Wes: Together...let's do that. Let's do this project together. We could do it all at your house, or would you rather do it at my...
Phil: Actually I'm getting some good sounds out of my house with the archaic equipment I have. Especially acoustic music, I get some good sounds with that.
Wes: That's what I like. I feel like I am so honored to play and do things with you. It seems like the guitar thing for me is like an accident. I feel like a singer-songwriter.
Wes: I feel that it will be cool for me to bring a simple skeleton of what I do and have you do some of the genius that you do.
Phil: That's how songs, especially good songs really lock into people's memory, in their hearts. You can't start with the technique. I think the good song has to start with the heartbeat.
Wes: I remember the first time I ever heard you was when you were with a group...I can't remember. Ummm, 2nd Chapter of Acts? Did you play with them?
Phil: Yeah, we did a tour called How the West Was Won back in '77. I was also with a group out of New York called Phil Keaggy Band with Lynn Nichols, Phil Madeira, and a couple other characters, Terry Anderson, Dan Cunningham.
Wes: Phil Madeira! I would say that is definitely a character. He is good.
Phil: You can't mention his name without going, "What a guy!"
Wes: What a guy!...It's funny when we walked in here, I was thinking about the first time I had actually seen you and I would be embarrassed if you knew what I was doing out in the audience. I was literally going WHOOOAAA, WOW, COOL MAN!, and people beside me were going, "hey, chill out man."
Phil: I've done a couple concerts where I might be embarrassed if I knew what some of the members in the audience were doing--like falling asleep!
Phil: I have done a few concerts where I definitely had a hard week or I was up in the studio all night before and you've got to be rested to do a concert.
Wes: You don't realize how much energy it takes.
Phil: Sometimes there is a point though, when you're tired--that a different creative thing kicks in.
Wes: It's like runner's high. I've had the happen.
Phil: When I was doing the Way Back Home album in '86, I had
done the song "Leet Everything Else Go" -- the acoustic version of it.
So it was after midnight and I said I'm tired but I've got this idea and
I developed it right there on the spot for two acoustic guitars. It was
"The Reunion" off of Wind and the Wheat, which was also once upon a time
on Way Back Home. I was tired but I was also energized. The
tiredness can be channeled in a good direction.
Wes: But is the front of an audience it's difficult.
RELEASE: Hey, guys, we always wondered...if you could put together your dream band, who would be in it?
Wes: Of course it would be you and me...
Phil: It would start right there. Okay.
Wes: A guitar player that I really like a lot, his name is Scott Dente' [Out of the Grey]...
Phil: Scott is great. You're not going to believe it but I thought of him before you mentioned his name.
Wes: Really? It's just the acoustic thing -- because we all do it so different. I always wondered what would it sound like if we get together.
Phil: I've got my Olson guitar and you have your Olson guitar and he
has his Olson guitar... so we'll call ourselves the Jimmy Olsons! What do
you think?
Wes: The Jimmy Olsons. I like it!
Phil (noticing the not-so-well-hidden tape recorder and figuring
out our entire ruse): You must print that and then we'll send a copy to
him.
Wes: Maybe we'll get a couple of free guitars out of it.
Phil: I don't think so (laughs :-). I've always had the desire but it takes commitment, it takes discipline, it takes time together...I always wanted to perform the music on Master and the Musician and The Wind In The Wheat that just couldn't be done.
Phil: Yeah, like the pieces that I have multiple guitar parts like "Symphonic Dance" from Beyond Nature has three guitar sections in it.
Phil: You could, and Scott could. We should do it -- it would be fun, plus we're all close to the same height.
Phil: I'm a bit older than you fellows.
Wes: Tell you what, whenever -- believe it or not -- and please don't be insulted by this...but people do say, when I do a concert, they go, "okay, Phil Keaggy is obviously your hero." I go, "yes, but come on, I'm not anywhere in his league"...now why am I saying this?
Phil: But he's never written a song called "The Robe."
Wes: Right. No, my response is maybe if I live to be 90, I'll be where you are.
Phil: You'll be as old as me. No, the thing is that we all have our strengths. We all have something that we can do that the other fellow can't. That's what makes us individuals.
Wes: And it's not our similarities that makes us strong as a body. It's our diversity.
RELEASE: That's nice, but let's say you could steal one thing from each other, what would it be?
Phil: I woud like your right middle finger.
Wes: I would like to have both your hands.
Phil: Except for the finger part.
Wes: If I could have those hands and play the way you play I would
gladly just take the nine fingers. I think your awareness of the fret
board--you're just all over the place, the chords, the whole
thing--it's amazing to me, the melodic lines that you have.
Phil: Thank you. I think your strong point is that you're always growing as a musician and I think you have a real positive attitude when you are in front of people because you know why you are there and you don't compromise your calling as a called musician, songwriter, singer, player, all that together. What I've seen of you strikes me as someone who is really dedicated to your mission and that's something that I really admire about you.
Wes: Mine wasn't as spiritual.
Phil: That's what makes the world go around.
Wes: You want to become more innovative musically, I want to become more spiritual.
Phil: I think my weakness is I have a tendency to be a bit like the
wind. I never do the same set, never choose the same songs, I don't
always do the same arrangements. I'm a bit affected by my circumstances
in performance so I've got some very major highs and I've experienced
some serious lows. Overall the last 5, 6, or 7 years, I think it's
evened out -- better than it used to be.
Wes: Somebody said that most geniuses are always on the verge of insanity. I don't know if you're a genius or not.
Phil: Well, I don't know. I think I'm pretty normal in most
respects. I don't push it that far. I don't go to extremes too much. I
really like a simple life. The other night I went to bed and I had one
word in my mind that was just ringing in my head and that was the word
simplicity. In terms of what you attach your heart to in this life. I
was going to go through the bits, the things that I've acquired over the
years, whether it's unused amplifiers, or bags I tote around--when you
travel, you're always looking for a new bag. Eventually the day will
come when I have no choice. I will shed these things. I was watching a
program about Einstein. I was fascinated by him.
Wes: I'm fascinated by him too. I read an article about him recently.
Phil: He was known by his colleagues and peers, they were impressed
by his simplicity and how he viewed things and yet he was this major
genius. He had a twinkle in his eye, he loved a good joke, he loved to
laugh. They said he had a laugh like a seal. I was impressed. Just the
idea of associating a word like simplicity with a man like
Einstein.
I think the happiest people in this life and I
think the happiest musicians are the people who set their hearts on a
higher calling and yet with a simplicity of living it out.
Phil (still): I really enjoyed your album, The Robe. I like the direction you took with it but I also loved the first album you put out.
Phil: It had alot of energy. But people always say to me, "Phil the best is ahead of you" and I would say the same thing for you.
Wes: Thanks. I think The Wind in the Wheat is my
favorite of yours. The writing, again the melodies you chose and found
and were inspired and amazing.... And I think your best is ahead of you
too.
Phil: That's a hopeful statement.
Wes: My new hero in Malcom Muggeridge. Michael Card gave me his book
called, Jesus The Man Who Lives. It's changed my life. When I finished
reading this book... there are times in my life when I feel so far away
from God, he really does feel like he lived 10,000 years ago in a place
that I've never been. But when I read this book, I felt like I could
reach out at arms length and touch him. Of course his Holy Spirit lives
in me, but just the honest way he portrayed Jesus is like I've never
heard. I feel like so much American christianity is based on hype and to
get a message across you don't need to hire marketing people, or make a
church a place of entertainment. You talked about simplicity earlier,
when Jesus wanted to make a point about should we pay taxes, he had to
borrow a coin to make the point. He didn't have a coin, He didn't even
have a home.
Phil: I watched a Muggeridge video, one of the last things that he ever did. Going through his house, he went to a cemetery, and said "I will be here soon." Did you ever see that one?
Wes: No! Michael Card's got to loan me that one too.
Phil: Oh, no! I borrowed it from him and never returned it.
Wes: I'll have to get it from you.
Phil: I don't have it, Madiera's got it...