RMMGA postings on effects used with amplified acoustic guitars (2001)

171 Messages in 34 Threads:

opinions on compressor pedals please [9]

From: Steve Cuss <steveandlisa123@my-deja...>
Subject: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:51:37 GMT
Organization: Deja.com

Hi All,

I am changing my electric rig and will be looking at getting a
compressor pedal or rack unit. I am wondering if any of you guys use a
compressor in your live acoustic rig. I'm probably in the market for a
pedal rather than rack unit due to lack of $$$. Does anyone have a
recommendation for a pedal that could do "double duty" of both helping
electric sustain and smoothing out acoustic guitar without negatively
affecting its tone?

I play an Ibanez AS80 electric through a tube amp (actually through a
flextone, but I'm selling it for a peavey classic 30 tube amp) and a
Thompson T1 with b band through a PA system - usually with some reverb
added.

thanks

Steve Cuss

--
my deja email address is a spam catcher.
My permanent address since 1996 is <cuss@juno...>

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From: Jeff Sherman <jsherman777@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:10:58 GMT
Organization: Deja.com

In article <95mi65$uhr$<1@nnrp1...>>,

  Steve Cuss <steveandlisa123@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am changing my electric rig and will be looking at getting a
> compressor pedal or rack unit. I am wondering if any of you guys use
> a compressor in your live acoustic rig.

Never used it on acoustic and I'm no tone or elctronics expert but I've
been using the same Dynacomp for 20+ years. Always liked it but I never
compared any others. A steel player I liked turned me on to em. YMMV.

Jeff

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From: brayburn <brayburn@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:19:01 GMT
Organization: Deja.com

Ditto that Jeff, you can't beat a Dynacomp. Have not used it for an
Acoustic rig. I would be careful with the application for a live
acoustic rig. Personally I'm a tone freak, we spend so much time
finding the "right" Acoustic, then we put a pick-up in or on it, run it
through a PA or amp, EQ it, wet the signal, and whats left? In my band
we use a Koa Larrivee C model, run it through a BBE Sonic Maximizer then
through the board, and it sounds pretty awesome. By the way my band has
a very loud back-line. Be judicious. Good luck!

Bob Rayburn

In article <95mja8$vnb$<1@nnrp1...>>,

  Jeff Sherman <jsherman777@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <95mi65$uhr$<1@nnrp1...>>,
> Steve Cuss <<steveandlisa123@my-deja...>> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am changing my electric rig and will be looking at getting a
> > compressor pedal or rack unit. I am wondering if any of you guys
use
> > a compressor in your live acoustic rig.
>
> Never used it on acoustic and I'm no tone or elctronics expert but
I've
> been using the same Dynacomp for 20+ years. Always liked it but I
never
> compared any others. A steel player I liked turned me on to em.
YMMV.
>
> Jeff
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

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From: Dick Thaxter <rtha@loc...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: 5 Feb 2001 18:50:43 GMT
Organization: Library of Congress

In <95mi65$uhr$<1@nnrp1...>>, Steve Cuss <<steveandlisa123@my-deja...>> writes:
>Hi All,
>
>I am changing my electric rig and will be looking at getting a
>compressor pedal or rack unit. I am wondering if any of you guys use a
>compressor in your live acoustic rig. I'm probably in the market for a
>pedal rather than rack unit due to lack of $$$. Does anyone have a
>recommendation for a pedal that could do "double duty" of both helping
>electric sustain and smoothing out acoustic guitar without negatively
>affecting its tone?
>
>I play an Ibanez AS80 electric through a tube amp (actually through a
>flextone, but I'm selling it for a peavey classic 30 tube amp) and a
>Thompson T1 with b band through a PA system - usually with some reverb
>added.
>
>thanks
>
>Steve Cuss
>

I use and MXR Dynacomp for electrics and leave it on most of the time.
I have played acoustics through it and it didn't do much to improve tone,
although for playing slide on my resonator it helped even out dynamics
for recording.

Once I got a decent acoustic preamp, (Raven Labs master blender) I don't
plug my Collings into anything else (except a delay once in a while).

Dick Thaxter

From: dan <dmirolli@vt...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:15:38 -0500
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA

check out the Carl Martin compressor pedal. The reviews are great, and a
friend of mine who plays out all the time loves his.

From: BrettGV <brettgv@aol...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: 05 Feb 2001 20:57:30 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Hmmm. . . for electric, I've been using the Boss comopressor for a few years
now and have had great results with it. I think it's a bit more flexible than
the Dyna Comp (had that for years, still do).

  As for the acoustic, I recently picked up an ART Tube PAC (preamp
compressor), and am happy with the results. Pretty "transparent" in
compression mode (about 2.3:1) as opposed to the limiter, but I think just
running through the tube, and getting some saturation does more to help the
sound than the actual compressor (which, by the way, works nicely for bass).
And the phantom power is nice to have for my PADI.

Brett

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:43:47 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

Steve-

A singer/songwriter aquaintence of mine also recommends the Carl Martin
pedal for acoustic use. I haven't heard it myself, but there's another
data point for you.

I've occassionally used my FMR Audio RNC (Really Nice Compressor!) on
my acoustic, and it is great for that application, assuming all you
want is very transparent control of dynamics. I don't think that's
what one typically wants in an electric guitar compressor, though.
For my electric I have only used compressors in multi-effects
processors, so I can't help there.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: <mikecloud@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 22:07:31 GMT
Organization: Deja.com

In article <95mi65$uhr$<1@nnrp1...>>,

  Steve Cuss <steveandlisa123@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am changing my electric rig and will be looking at getting a
> compressor pedal or rack unit. I am wondering if any of you guys use
a
> compressor in your live acoustic rig. I'm probably in the market for
a
> pedal rather than rack unit due to lack of $$$. Does anyone have a
> recommendation for a pedal that could do "double duty" of both helping
> electric sustain and smoothing out acoustic guitar without negatively
> affecting its tone?
>
> I play an Ibanez AS80 electric through a tube amp (actually through a
> flextone, but I'm selling it for a peavey classic 30 tube amp) and a
> Thompson T1 with b band through a PA system - usually with some reverb
> added.
>
> thanks
>
> Steve Cuss
>
> --
> my deja email address is a spam catcher.
> My permanent address since 1996 is <cuss@juno...>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

Steve:

Check out the RNC really nice compressor half-rack unit for acoustic.
It's no more expensive than a really nice pedal, and competes with rack
units in the $1,000 range.

Mike

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From: <the_troubleman@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: opinions on compressor pedals please
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:17:34 GMT
Organization: Deja.com

For electric guitar, there's a TC Electronics Sustain + Parametric EQ
in my pedalboard. I absolutely love that thing. Only downside is it's
voracious appetite for batteries. If I'm just gonna jam, I've an old
Boss Compressor that works wonders. For acoustic guitar I stick to
JoeMeek compressors. They're tops.....

peace,

jb

In article <95mi65$uhr$<1@nnrp1...>>,

  Steve Cuss <steveandlisa123@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am changing my electric rig and will be looking at getting a
> compressor pedal or rack unit. I am wondering if any of you guys use
a
> compressor in your live acoustic rig. I'm probably in the market for
a
> pedal rather than rack unit due to lack of $$$. Does anyone have a
> recommendation for a pedal that could do "double duty" of both helping
> electric sustain and smoothing out acoustic guitar without negatively
> affecting its tone?
>
> I play an Ibanez AS80 electric through a tube amp (actually through a
> flextone, but I'm selling it for a peavey classic 30 tube amp) and a
> Thompson T1 with b band through a PA system - usually with some reverb
> added.
>
> thanks
>
> Steve Cuss
>
> --
> my deja email address is a spam catcher.
> My permanent address since 1996 is <cuss@juno...>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

Impedence mismatch, volume pdeals, other stuff [5]
From: Akbar Anwari <anwari@snet...>
Subject: Impedence mismatch, volume pdeals, other stuff
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 17:28:17 -0500
Organization: SNET Internet

Hi,

I would really like to use a volume pedal with my Larrivee-OM-05 with
Natural 1 pickup. I've been trying to use my Ernie Ball 250Kohm volume
pedal, but all of the volume change is on the top end, which I'm
guessing is due to impedence mismatch. It works fine on an electric.

What's the best way I can make the Natural 1 hi Z? Transformer,
stompbox. I really don't want to buy another volume pedal.

Kap'n

From: David <pickups@rmi...>
Subject: Re: Impedence mismatch, volume pdeals, other stuff
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:55:14 -0700
Organization: RMI.NET

Hi Mitch,
I don't know of any simple stomp boxes designed for acoustic pickups, but
surprisingly, BOSS e.q. pedals seem to have a very high impedance and don't
seem to drop out the lows at all. I'm going to assume it's in the 7-10Megohm
range. They eat batteries like crazy, but they're decently clean with
everything flat and the gain at mid-point.

David Enke
Pick-up the World
www.pick-uptheworld.com
<pickups@rmi...>
800-375-2656
"MKarlo" <<mkarlo@aol...>> wrote in message
news:<20010210231705.08830.00000381@ng-mk1...>...
> >Sorry but buy another pedal made for an acoustic guitar pick-up's
impedance.
>
> And which pedal might that be?
> Mitch
>
> "Restore Beauty Where There Is Ugliness."

From: Akbar Anwari <anwari@snet...>
Subject: Re: Impedence mismatch, volume pdeals, other stuff
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:35:03 -0500
Organization: SNET Internet

David,

I found the solution. Oddly enough, throwing a electric guitar stompbox
between the guitar and volume pedal did not work.

What did work was using one of those little impedance transformers, like
those sold by Shure for converting a LowZ mic to a HiZ input. I used it
in reverse naturally. This is how it works:

Make up (or buy) a male XLR to female 1/4" adapter.

Plug the male end of the transformer into the volume pedal

Connect the new adapter to the transformer

Plug the guitar into the adapter

Of course you lose the LoZ characteristics after the pedal. But that's
fine with me.

Kap'n

David wrote:
>
> Hi Mitch,
> I don't know of any simple stomp boxes designed for acoustic pickups, but
> surprisingly, BOSS e.q. pedals seem to have a very high impedance and don't
> seem to drop out the lows at all. I'm going to assume it's in the 7-10Megohm
> range. They eat batteries like crazy, but they're decently clean with
> everything flat and the gain at mid-point.
>
> David Enke
> Pick-up the World
> www.pick-uptheworld.com
> <pickups@rmi...>
> 800-375-2656
> "MKarlo" <<mkarlo@aol...>> wrote in message
> news:<20010210231705.08830.00000381@ng-mk1...>...
> > >Sorry but buy another pedal made for an acoustic guitar pick-up's
> impedance.
> >
> > And which pedal might that be?
> > Mitch
> >
> > "Restore Beauty Where There Is Ugliness."

From: David <pickups@rmi...>
Subject: Re: Impedence mismatch, volume pdeals, other stuff
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:50:23 -0700
Organization: RMI.NET

Hi Akbar,
since the Enie Ball has room in it, I'd maybe suggest a pre-amp circuit and
a 9-volt battery mounted into it. The EMG PB-1 pre-amp is a nice, small IC
design that has gain trim adjustment, and retails for $36. It would be very
easy to tie the circuit into your pedal's jacks and avoid the extra expenses
of buying another box. You would need a three pole DPDT switch to disengage
the pre-amp circuit (and power) when playing your electric guitar, and this
would involve considerable soldering. Another idea is to mount the pre-amp
into the guitar or another enclosure (box) upstream from the pedal.
David Enke
Pick-up the World
www.pick-uptheworld.com
<pickups@rmi...>
800-375-2656
"Akbar Anwari" <<anwari@snet...>> wrote in message
news:<3A831D81.A3BDDD00@snet...>...
> Hi,
>
> I would really like to use a volume pedal with my Larrivee-OM-05 with
> Natural 1 pickup. I've been trying to use my Ernie Ball 250Kohm volume
> pedal, but all of the volume change is on the top end, which I'm
> guessing is due to impedence mismatch. It works fine on an electric.
>
> What's the best way I can make the Natural 1 hi Z? Transformer,
> stompbox. I really don't want to buy another volume pedal.
>
> Kap'n

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Impedence mismatch, volume pdeals, other stuff
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:28:18 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

David wrote:
>
> Hi Akbar,
> since the Enie Ball has room in it, I'd maybe suggest a pre-amp circuit and
> a 9-volt battery mounted into it.

David-

This would be a good idea if the pickup was a bare piezo pickup that needed
buffering (i.e., if the problem was arising due do loading of the pickup by
the 250k pot in the pedal). But Akbar said he has a Natural 1, which is one
of Fishman's Acoustic Matrix active pickups. So there's already a
preamp/buffer in the signal path.

I have an Ernie Ball pedal myself (the stereo version), and I don't even
like the taper of it with my electric, though I've more or less gotten
used to it (apart from that, it's a real solid pedal). Note that in
the current version of the mono 250k pedal (#6166) there is a switch
behind the jack area under the footplate that lets you change the taper.
Akbar, if you have this model, try changing the setting of that switch
to see if it helps. Another way to change the taper is to add a resistor
between the wiper and one of the legs of the pot (that's probably what
this switch does).

Peace,
Tom Loredo

acoustic guitar pedals [21]
From: john bankston <jbanksto@midsouth...>
Subject: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:14:29 GMT
Organization: RoadRunner - Midsouth

I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in
coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals
tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic tone
but provides good coloring effects such as chorus, reverb, delay, etc.?

I'm aware of the Boss AD-3 and the DOD Acoustec. I'm only aware of these 2
because I saw them on-line at Musician's Friend. Does anyone have either
one of these pedals and can comment on them? I'd love to hear from you if
you've tried both. Are there better pedals I should consider?

--
John Bankston
http://www.johnbankston.com

From: Bob Dorgan <d77737@epix...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:01:02 GMT
Organization: what, me worry?

Jeff Sherman wrote:
>
> Aren't those pedals you mentioned the ones designed to make electrics
> sound like acoustics? That's not what you want is it? I like keeping
> the acoustic as natural sounding as possible so I'd suggest maybe only a
> little slapback delay or reverb and avoid the chorusing and flanging
> stuff. That's just me, though. I dunno, John. Its your sound. I just
> have a pal who I always think sounds a little too processed andI always
> wish he'd just clean it up. You can't hear the wood, ya know? Let us
> know what you decide.
>
> Jeff

A tiny bit of chorus can be tasty.
Think James Taylor here--

But, I prefer not to use anything now.
Run naked- it feels great!
Bob Dorgan

From: MKarlo <mkarlo@aol...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: 27 Feb 2001 17:55:08 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

In article <<3A9BCF62.86A@epix...>>, Bob Dorgan <<d77737@epix...>> writes:

>But, I prefer not to use anything now.
>Run naked- it feels great!
>Bob Dorgan
>

SSSSPPEEEWWWWW!!!!!!!!

Mr. Dorgan! Once again you are responsible for the soiling of my keyboard with
Folgers. It's not so much the words, but the image of you (or me for that
matter) running sans apparel, guitar in hands, grinning stupidly as bystanders
faint, shriek, hurl, whatever. You (Ooops! I mean "ya'll") really must desist
in creating this fantastic imagery or I will be sending you a cleaning bill.

Now, why is it that you "run naked"? Have you found like I am beginning to
that once you get the good quality stuff up and running right, you don't need
anything to fill out the sound? I'd like to hear your take.

From: Bob Dorgan <d77737@epix...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:13:44 GMT
Organization: what, me worry?

MKarlo wrote:

  Have you found like I am beginning to
> that once you get the good quality stuff up and running right, you don't need
> anything to fill out the sound? I'd like to hear your take.

I think it's the discovery of better amplification tools.
When I used reverb and chorus, it wasn't to enhance the sound, it was to
cover something up. The gear has improved so much, that you can get a
more pure tone with less electronic wizardry.
Bob Dorgan

From: Ken Cashion <kcashion@datasync...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:37:04 GMT
Organization: Datasync

On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:13:44 GMT, Bob Dorgan <<d77737@epix...>> wrote:

>MKarlo wrote:
> Have you found like I am beginning to
>> that once you get the good quality stuff up and running right, you don't need
>> anything to fill out the sound? I'd like to hear your take.
>
>I think it's the discovery of better amplification tools.
>When I used reverb and chorus, it wasn't to enhance the sound, it was to
>cover something up. The gear has improved so much, that you can get a
>more pure tone with less electronic wizardry.

	Bob, I had my own sound system and it was easily carried with
a jillion instruments in the back of a Rambler station wagon -- how do
you like that for "cool?"
	The most I hoped for was to have me and instruments sound how
ever it was we sounded -- but just louder. This wasn't always easy to
attain.
	I did have a good reverb on it but I never used it other than
to entertain friends with my miming of the "Fort Worth Texas Wrestling
Coliseum" sound.

Cheers -- Ken Cashion
--------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Sherman <jsherman@lorainccc...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:45:09 -0500
Organization: Joint Center for Policy Research

Aren't those pedals you mentioned the ones designed to make electrics
sound like acoustics? That's not what you want is it? I like keeping
the acoustic as natural sounding as possible so I'd suggest maybe only a
little slapback delay or reverb and avoid the chorusing and flanging
stuff. That's just me, though. I dunno, John. Its your sound. I just
have a pal who I always think sounds a little too processed andI always
wish he'd just clean it up. You can't hear the wood, ya know? Let us
know what you decide.

Jeff

john bankston wrote:
>
> I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in
> coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals
> tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic tone
> but provides good coloring effects such as chorus, reverb, delay, etc.?
>
> I'm aware of the Boss AD-3 and the DOD Acoustec. I'm only aware of these 2
> because I saw them on-line at Musician's Friend. Does anyone have either
> one of these pedals and can comment on them? I'd love to hear from you if
> you've tried both. Are there better pedals I should consider?
>
> --
> John Bankston
> http://www.johnbankston.com

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:56:30 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

Jeff Sherman wrote:
>
> Aren't those pedals you mentioned the ones designed to make electrics
> sound like acoustics?

Jeff-

Both the AD-3 and the AcousTec are designed for acoustic players, with
capabilities designed to enhance acoustic tone, not to emulate it. There
are indeed pedals that attempt to do the latter, but it looks like John
did his homework in weeding out those. Unfortunately, I don't have
experience with either pedal, so I can't comment further on them.

I agree with the advice of others that "less is more" when it comes to
acoustic effects. But unless the room has good reverb, I almost always
have a good reverb device in my effects chain. And I might add a touch
of chorus now and then, though less often than I used to. I mostly
haven't used pedals, though, so I can't suggest good choices based
on experience. I've heard very good comments about the TC Electronics
chorus pedal and Carl Martin pedals for use with acoustics.

I also like to use delay and loops (via a JamMan) in my live setup.
I think of it as kind of the flip side of going "plugged"---I don't
know of any amplification setup that sounds as good as a guitar
played acoustically, so there's always a compromise with the tone.
But one thing that you get for making the compromise is the ability
to do a few things you can't do acoustically, like looping.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: 27 Feb 2001 19:19:54 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

<<I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in
coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals
tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic tone
but provides good coloring effects such as chorus, reverb, delay, etc.?>>

ART's acoustic pedal's pretty good. Chorus, delay, slapback, etc, etc...and a
separate (2 footpads) boost (nice for solos or for going from flatpick to bare
fingers).

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: Dan-E <dan-ekim@ix...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:15:40 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises

In article <pvPm6.64268$<lk6.3968030@typhoon...>>,

	"john bankston" <jbanksto@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
>I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start
playing in
>coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good
pedals
>tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the
acoustic tone
>but provides good coloring effects such as chorus, reverb,
delay, etc.?
>

I use a cheap Danelectro "Milkshake" chorus minipedal to add to
the sound just a little bit since my pickup doesn't have any
tone or volume control. I got it mostly because it was on sale
and inexpensive to begin with but sound wise, it's actually
pretty decent.

Dan-E

From: Kirk Roy <kirk@nova...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: 28 Feb 2001 12:38:03 GMT
Organization: Northern Virginia Internet Access Cooperative

> In article <pvPm6.64268$<lk6.3968030@typhoon...>>,
> "john bankston" <<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote: I have a Guild
> acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in coffee shops
> and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals tailored
> more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic tone but
> provides good coloring effects such as chorus, reverb, delay, etc.?

Depending on how close your Guild gets to a good acoustic sound when
plugged in you might consider adding one of the acoustic simulators to
your set to get some of the acoustics harmonic and dynamic range "back"
(er, simulated back). I've got an old Rockman Acoustic Guitar Pedal that
does a pretty good job of it...

Kirk

From: Carlos Alden <calden@iea...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:07:22 GMT
Organization: Verio

An alternative to The Jam Man , BOomerang, and THe Line six delay modeler
is the Akai Headrush pedal. It's about $200, and is a delay/looper pedal
like the Line six. It sounds great, but like the line six is limited in
the loop time. But you can also layer lines on top of what you are
doing. ONe downside is that the footswitch to loop/play is a relatively
loud "click".

Carlos

--
-Alternative and Trad Celtic Music with THE CELTIC NOTS
go to: celticnots.com
-THE NACHO CELTIC HOUR: Celtic, Folk, and Kids' Music on the Radio!
go to: www.kpbx.org/programs/nacho.htm

From: Rocky Jones <A_DIOSibrocky@musician...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:59:35 GMT
Organization: CoreComm LTD - Chicago, IL

On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:14:29 GMT, "john bankston"
<<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote:

>I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in
>coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals
>tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic tone
>but provides good coloring effects such as chorus, reverb, delay, etc.?
>
>I'm aware of the Boss AD-3 and the DOD Acoustec. I'm only aware of these 2
>because I saw them on-line at Musician's Friend. Does anyone have either
>one of these pedals and can comment on them? I'd love to hear from you if
>you've tried both. Are there better pedals I should consider?
>
>--
>John Bankston
>http://www.johnbankston.com

John,

We used to have an DOD Acoustec around our church for a
guitarist-fella who liked to plug into it. I tried it and thought it
sounded good. Following are the pros & cons:

Pros:
~ Offers a great deal of tonal variety.
~ Very handy for gigs - quick & easy to setup; onboard tuner & muting.

Cons:
~ Masks the subtleties (sp?) of differing instruments. It can assist a
plywood guitar immensely, yet neutralize the benefits a fine solidwood
guitar.
~ EQing, Delays, Reverbs, & Modulated Effects tend to be less
tweakable and more "obvious & effected". For band-based-gigs this may
not be bad, since effects in moderation can go unnoticed.
~ In the hands of player with an inexperience ear for acoustic guitar
tone, it has all the potential to sound like garbage! And,
unfortunately, this seems to be the case many of the times I've
heard/seen them in use (perhaps related to the low pricepoint).

Overall, it's not a bad way to go. If you're a purist, you'll hate the
thought of it regardless of how it sounds. But, if you're looking for
a solid acoustic tone with some flexibility to process it, you'll like
it! The above impressions apply to most of the Acoustic Processors on
the market, adding the Zoom 504(?), etc..

Hope this help...

Blessings,
Rocky Jones

'Play the music, and the instrument will follow!' - rj

Del 'A_DIOS' to reply.

From: Adrian Legg <Commercial-Free@Speech...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:55:51 +0000

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:27:26 +0000, john bankston wrote
(in message <i%sn6.69933$<lk6.4361342@typhoon...>>):

> Hi Rocky,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I think you may be the only person in all the replies
> who answered either one of my original questions. I'm reading up on the
> Zoom 504 now. Thanks for pointing it out to me.
>
>
> "Rocky Jones" <<A_DIOSibrocky@musician...>> wrote in message
> news:3a9d663c$0$45998$<1dc6e903@news...>...
>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:14:29 GMT, "john bankston"
>> <<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in
>>> coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals
>>> tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic
> tone
[....] Are there better pedals I should consider?

Personally, I'd listen to the multi-fx things carefully on a full range p.a..
I think they lose bandwidth. While that isn't much of an issue with a
magnetic pick-up which is narrow bandwidth anyway, it becomes more of an
issue with piezo pick-ups. I think most of them cut off top and bottom. I
think you can often get better results with simpler stomp boxes.
And imho nothing plugged in stays true to acoustic tone - it's all a
compromise.
--
www.adrianlegg.com

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: 02 Mar 2001 03:02:26 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>
>Personally, I'd listen to the multi-fx things carefully on a full range p.a..
>
>I think they lose bandwidth. While that isn't much of an issue with a
>magnetic pick-up which is narrow bandwidth anyway, it becomes more of an
>issue with piezo pick-ups. I think most of them cut off top and bottom. I
>think you can often get better results with simpler stomp boxes.
>And imho nothing plugged in stays true to acoustic tone - it's all a
>compromise.
>--
>www.adrianlegg.com

Adrian, I thik you're right. My multi-fx stuff DOES chop some, particularly
bottom ("body") form the tone. My fave is using only 1 box: my TC chorus.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: Michael McCollum <eadric@visi...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 16:53:22 -0500

"john bankston" <<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote in message
news:i%sn6.69933$<lk6.4361342@typhoon...>...
> Hi Rocky,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I think you may be the only person in all the
replies
> who answered either one of my original questions. I'm reading up on the
> Zoom 504 now. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

I liked the DOD Acoustek I had for a while. Got rid of it because I just
don't use EFX much and the ones that I do use are on the amp.

Mike

From: Kim Strickland <kestrick@ix...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 20:30:26 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises

One you did not mention before is the Boss AD-5. This is very quiet,
has lots of gain available, 4 bands of equalization, a good notch filter,
simple but decent sounding chorus and reverb, and the acoustic simulator
controls do a good job of warming up undersaddle piezo pickups. It also
uses knobs to make all the adjustments. While that may seem a bit
retro, I find them actually much easier to use than clicking down
choices on a digital display.

Kim

In article <Oyzn6.863$<JG2.9242@sydney...>>, "Michael McCollum"
<<eadric@visi...>> wrote:

>"john bankston" <<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote in message
>news:i%sn6.69933$<lk6.4361342@typhoon...>...
>> Hi Rocky,
>>
>> Thanks for the reply. I think you may be the only person in all the
>replies
>> who answered either one of my original questions. I'm reading up on the
>> Zoom 504 now. Thanks for pointing it out to me.
>
>I liked the DOD Acoustek I had for a while. Got rid of it because I just
>don't use EFX much and the ones that I do use are on the amp.
>
>Mike

--
Kim

From: BrettGV <brettgv@aol...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: 02 Mar 2001 07:05:48 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

The AD-5's a pretty good choice. Make sure you get a good one, though. I had
a lemon, got another one, and that started acting a bit funny (also read that
someone else got one that had the same problem mine did). To counter that,
have a friend who has one that has seen use here and abroad and with not a hint
of a problem. 

  If you get a good one, they are very nice for piezo and magnetic pickups or
that combination. The chorus and reverb add some nice shimmer and space to the
sound if not overused, and can be used with the Roland unlatched foot switches.
 The effects insert is a good place for a volume pedal as well.  

  The body resonance and mic placement controls definitely add "life" and
"wood" (well . . .virtual wood at least. . .) to the piezo tone. Kind of
redundant, though, if you have a piezo/mic, or magnetic/mic setup. Too much
resonance.

Brett

>
>One you did not mention before is the Boss AD-5. This is very quiet,
>has lots of gain available, 4 bands of equalization, a good notch filter,
>simple but decent sounding chorus and reverb, and the acoustic simulator
>controls do a good job of warming up undersaddle piezo pickups. It also
>uses knobs to make all the adjustments. While that may seem a bit
>retro, I find them actually much easier to use than clicking down
>choices on a digital display.
>
>Kim

From: john bankston <jbanksto@midsouth...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:43:58 GMT
Organization: RoadRunner - Midsouth

I've looked into the Boss AD-5 a little. The knobs turn me off though. If
I find there's a few diff. settings I like on a pedal, I want to be able to
quickly cycle through them w/ the tap of a foot. I don't want to bend down
to turn knobs every time I want a diff. sound.

"Kim Strickland" <<kestrick@ix...>> wrote in message
news:<kestrick-0103012030260001@pool-63...>...
> One you did not mention before is the Boss AD-5. This is very quiet,
> has lots of gain available, 4 bands of equalization, a good notch filter,
> simple but decent sounding chorus and reverb, and the acoustic simulator
> controls do a good job of warming up undersaddle piezo pickups. It also
> uses knobs to make all the adjustments. While that may seem a bit
> retro, I find them actually much easier to use than clicking down
> choices on a digital display.
>
> Kim
>
>
> In article <Oyzn6.863$<JG2.9242@sydney...>>, "Michael McCollum"
> <<eadric@visi...>> wrote:
>
> >"john bankston" <<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote in message
> >news:i%sn6.69933$<lk6.4361342@typhoon...>...
> >> Hi Rocky,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the reply. I think you may be the only person in all the
> >replies
> >> who answered either one of my original questions. I'm reading up on
the
> >> Zoom 504 now. Thanks for pointing it out to me.
> >
> >I liked the DOD Acoustek I had for a while. Got rid of it because I just
> >don't use EFX much and the ones that I do use are on the amp.
> >
> >Mike
>
> --
> Kim

From: Gozy <Gozy@hotmail...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 05:50:07 -0500
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises

john bankston wrote:
>
> I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in
> coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals
> tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic tone

For bar gigs, I like the Zoom 504. One box gets it all done (once you
learn to program it properly) and it is inexpensive, so if it gets
trashed on the gig, no big deal. I do advise the power supply option,
as it does eat 9v batteries.

From: Rocky Jones <A_DIOSibrocky@musician...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:31:02 GMT
Organization: CoreComm LTD - Chicago, IL

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 05:50:07 -0500, Gozy <<Gozy@hotmail...>>
wrote:

>For bar gigs, I like the Zoom 504. One box gets it all done (once
you
>learn to program it properly) and it is inexpensive, so if it gets
>trashed on the gig, no big deal. I do advise the power supply
option,
>as it does eat 9v batteries.

I'm of the understanding Zoom updated the pedal to a 504 II which will
use 4 AA batt's for 28hr operation. If it sounds good, this sort of
battery life will be a nice feature for gigging.

Blessings,
Rocky

"Play the music, and the instrument will follow!" - rj

Del 'A_DIOS' to reply.

From: Frank Emanuel <femanuel@sympatico...>
Subject: Re: acoustic guitar pedals
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:35:23 -0500
Organization: (Posted via) GTS Netcom - Public USENET Service http://pubnews.netcom.net.uk

John,

I have a Zoom 504A which is a great little unit for colouring your sound. I
use it more when I am not the only acoustic on stage - give my sound a bit
more distinction. Or when I want something a bit weird. I bought it when I
was shopping for an acoustic DI - I wanted a bit of feedback control which
it also gives you. I think that this pedal is worth checking out.

Frank

"john bankston" <<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote in message
news:pvPm6.64268$<lk6.3968030@typhoon...>...
> I have a Guild acoustic / electric guitar and want to start playing in
> coffee shops and neighborhood bars. What are some overall good pedals
> tailored more for the acoustic guitar that stays true to the acoustic tone
> but provides good coloring effects such as chorus, reverb, delay, etc.?
>
> I'm aware of the Boss AD-3 and the DOD Acoustec. I'm only aware of these
2
> because I saw them on-line at Musician's Friend. Does anyone have either
> one of these pedals and can comment on them? I'd love to hear from you if
> you've tried both. Are there better pedals I should consider?
>
> --
> John Bankston
> http://www.johnbankston.com
>
>
>

Boss CE-5 vs. Boss CH-1 chorus pedals
From: john bankston <jbanksto@midsouth...>
Subject: Boss CE-5 vs. Boss CH-1 chorus pedals
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:20:34 GMT
Organization: RoadRunner - Midsouth

What's the diff. between the Boss CE-5 and Boss CH-1 chorus pedals? Is
there a hands down choice on which I'd choose if I tell you I'm strictly an
acoustic player?

--
John Bankston
http://www.johnbankston.com

Boss CE-5 vs. Boss CH-1 chorus pedals [2]
From: Rocky Jones <thisemailaddresswontwork@musician...>
Subject: Re: Boss CE-5 vs. Boss CH-1 chorus pedals
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 04:51:05 GMT
Organization: CoreComm LTD - Chicago, IL

On Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:20:34 GMT, "john bankston"
<<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote:

>What's the diff. between the Boss CE-5 and Boss CH-1 chorus pedals?
Is
>there a hands down choice on which I'd choose if I tell you I'm
strictly an
>acoustic player?
>
>
>--
>John Bankston
>http://www.johnbankston.com

For me... the hands-down choice is... neither - particularly given the
heavy usage of the effect on flattops these days. Typically when I
hear someone playing with chorus, the tone & dynamics seem to get
reduced to sounding like a 'generic, chorused acoustic'. The character
of the guitar, and sometimes the player, becomes masked.

If you're interested in adding something different, I'd recommend
trying a little bit of delay @ 300ms - 1) it'll give the guitar some
space, and 2) as notes are sustained, a subtle chorus effect will be
created as the notes are delayed over each other & modulating. If you
DO go with a chorus pedal, use it only on occasion, mixed lightly to
add a bit of sparkle.

Best wishes!

Blessings,
Rocky Jones

reply... ibrocky ~at~ musician ~dot~ net

From: David Kilpatrick <david@maxwellplace...>
Subject: Re: Boss CE-5 vs. Boss CH-1 chorus pedals
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:51:03 +0000
Organization: Icon Publications Ltd

Rocky Jones wrote:
>
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:20:34 GMT, "john bankston"
> <<jbanksto@midsouth...>> wrote:
>
> >What's the diff. between the Boss CE-5 and Boss CH-1 chorus pedals?

Well, John Renbourn uses the CH-1 out of preference. No idea why but he sounds pretty good
with it adding just a touch to the mix.

David

better chorus pedals ???
From: dan <dmirolli@vt...>
Subject: Re: better chorus pedals ???
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 16:37:12 -0500
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA

> Ones to avoid for acoustic guitar, IMHO:
>
> --Arion chorus. A cool effect, but definitely not for acoustic. Flimsy build,
> too.
> --Danelectro Cool Cat. Murders the bottom end.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Steve (SEFSTRAT)
>

Yes, Avoid the Dano for acoustic or electric unless you hate your raw guitar tone.

Dan

Level Booster (strumming vs. lead) [10]
From: they call me frenchy <NOSPAM@nospam...>
Subject: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:06:46 GMT
Organization: Zeta Cauliflower

I am having a frustrating time...
I have my level set perfectly for strumming.
Then I kick in my delay unit (Lexicon MPX100) for some leads and lose
significant volume.

I have tried to gain compensate in the MPX100 delay patch, but no luck
(thus the frustration).

How do people solve this problem?????

I have tried using a volume pedal, but then I lose all of my high end
during the strumming portion, which is unacceptable.

Is there some sort of high fidelity in-line boost pedal??

thx,
frenchy

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: 20 Mar 2001 15:50:14 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>Is there some sort of high fidelity in-line boost pedal??
>
>thx,
>frenchy

On the more inexpensive side, the DOD FX-10 (FET preamp) works VERY well. It
has a tone control that allows you to "match" the boosted tone with the
unboosted tone. I have a couple of them.

On the pricier side, the TC Electronics Line Booster is maybe the best of that
kind of animal...not longer made, and damned expensive on the used market.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: MPompe2 <mpompe2@aol...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: 21 Mar 2001 00:35:08 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

I use the MPX 100 as well and love it. Try playing with the Output knob. My
dry vs effected level is almost identical. Very nice, VERY affordable unit.
Effects are very smooth to my ear.

>
>I am having a frustrating time...
>I have my level set perfectly for strumming.
>Then I kick in my delay unit (Lexicon MPX100) for some leads and lose
>significant volume.

Mike

From: John Youngblood <photoman@sonic...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:59:29 GMT
Organization: Youngblood Photography

--------------DAADDC11DD0E3941821C10EA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Frenchy,

    Like Mike Pompe2 says, by tweaking the input and output levels that
are available you can get the level you want. I've found the mpx100
wants a certain strength of level on the input to work right, which
means adjusting the input. The output level is then adjusted to match
whatever level you need.
    I'm also quite pleased with that unit from the standpoint of sound
quality and options for the money.

-- John Youngblood

Youngblood Photography Website

--------------DAADDC11DD0E3941821C10EA
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
Frenchy,

    Like Mike Pompe2 says, by tweaking the input and output levels that are available you can get the level you want. I've found the mpx100 wants a certain strength of level on the input to work right, which means adjusting the input. The output level is then adjusted to match whatever level you need.
    I'm also quite pleased with that unit from the standpoint of sound quality and options for the money.

-- John Youngblood

Youngblood Photography Website --------------DAADDC11DD0E3941821C10EA--

From: MKarlo <mkarlo@aol...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: 21 Mar 2001 13:37:29 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Hey Frenchy. Put it through your effects loop if you have one. Provided it's
a side chain loop, it shouldn't affect your level the way you've described.

mk

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:36:27 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

Howdy-

Steve wrote:
>
> >Is there some sort of high fidelity in-line boost pedal??
> >
> >thx,
> >frenchy
>
> On the more inexpensive side, the DOD FX-10 (FET preamp) works VERY well. It
> has a tone control that allows you to "match" the boosted tone with the
> unboosted tone. I have a couple of them.

Unfortunately I believe DOD stopped making these quite a few years ago. I
sometimes still regret having sold mine. It was simple and did its job
admirably for $40---there is still nothing like it at that price. One
little-appreciated tidbit about it is that the hi-Z buffer stage is
active even when the pedal is "off" (i.e., the red LED is not lit). So
you could use it to buffer a bare piezo signal, and keep the pedal off
most of the time to conserve the battery (the LED takes as much current
as the rest of the circuitry!). Just kick the pedal on for the gain
boost, as Steve noted.

I first heard about when I got my first LR Baggs LB6 pickup; at the
time their product literature recommended the DOD BiFET (among other
preamps/DIs). Perhaps you can find one used at Ebay or elsewhere.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: they call me frenchy <NOSPAM@nospam...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:35:51 GMT
Organization: Zeta Cauliflower

Thanks for all the responses.
I did settle on a setting I was happy with by running the input a
little hotter and adjusting the FX level while the wet/dry mix was at
50/50.

It does make sense to solve the problem without buying more stuff, but
I wanted to make sure there wasn't a standard way that people were
jumping between leads and strumming that I didn't know about. (cool
boost pedal)

The volume pedal I'm using between my pre-amp and the FX really messes
with my tone. Now I'm pretty much using it as full on or full off. I
should probably just make a on/off footswitch for when I set my guitar
down.

thx again,
frenchy

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:59:29 GMT, John Youngblood <<photoman@sonic...>>
wrote:

>Frenchy,
>
> Like Mike Pompe2 says, by tweaking the input and output levels that
>are available you can get the level you want. I've found the mpx100
>wants a certain strength of level on the input to work right, which
>means adjusting the input. The output level is then adjusted to match
>whatever level you need.
> I'm also quite pleased with that unit from the standpoint of sound
>quality and options for the money.
>
>-- John Youngblood
>
>Youngblood Photography Website

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:35:26 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

they call me frenchy wrote:
>
> The volume pedal I'm using between my pre-amp and the FX really messes
> with my tone. Now I'm pretty much using it as full on or full off.

Hi Frenchy-

This is pretty suspicious. If you are using the pedal after a preamp
and into an effects box (so the pickup signal is already buffered and
the pedal is not excessively loaded), the volume pedal should have
negligible affect on tone. I am wondering if perhaps your pedal is
deffective. Have you tried another pedal (the same model, or another
model)?

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: they call me frenchy <NOSPAM@nospam...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:03:59 GMT
Organization: Zeta Cauliflower

The volume pedal is indeed between the pre-amp and the FX.
It is definitely affecting tone.
90% of the volume swing occurs at the toe part of the travel also.
Must be a high impedance pedal.
I was looking for a on/off/boost pedal to replace it with.
Maybe just a good low impedance volume pedal would be what I need.

It will satisy the boost/off part, but in order to set the strumming
volume I would have to try and consistently put the volume pedal at
3/4 mast on the fly. That doesn't sound like fun.

So its looking like a low impedance volume pedal AND the DOD FX-10
will fit my bill. Then I will have the on/off/boost options AND the
ability to use volume swells. Sounds like a winner.

thx,
frenchy

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:35:26 -0500, Tom Loredo
<<loredo@spacenet...>> wrote:

>they call me frenchy wrote:
>>
>> The volume pedal I'm using between my pre-amp and the FX really messes
>> with my tone. Now I'm pretty much using it as full on or full off.
>
>Hi Frenchy-
>
>This is pretty suspicious. If you are using the pedal after a preamp
>and into an effects box (so the pickup signal is already buffered and
>the pedal is not excessively loaded), the volume pedal should have
>negligible affect on tone. I am wondering if perhaps your pedal is
>deffective. Have you tried another pedal (the same model, or another
>model)?
>
>Peace,
>Tom Loredo

From: M Musement <mmusement@aol...>
Subject: Re: Level Booster (strumming vs. lead)
Date: 26 Mar 2001 19:07:19 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Frenchy, 

	For an econo alternative:
	You might also want to change the potentiometer in your passive volume pedal.
An educated guess based on how you describe the present gain change is that you
need between a 50K to 100K. If you check the owners manual or call the amp
manufacturer, they could tell you what the impedance of the output is. They may
also suggest what value potentiometer to buy. Then call Stewart McDonalds or
take a trip to Radio Shack or an electronics supply store, where for a cost of
under $10. and thrity minutes with a soldering iron and a pair of pliers , you
will have what you need.
	Also, you could use one 2 conductor plus ground cable and either XLR or 1/4"
stereo connectors instead of using two cables. One conductor for send, one for
return. Mount the connectors on the chassis of the amp and the volume pedal. Be
real carefull to mark the connectors well to avoid mishaps.

					AUDIOS,
					Christopher
Request info on Pandora's Box effects for acoustic guitar [2]
From: BNmartin54 <bnmartin54@cs...>
Subject: Request info on Pandora's Box effects for acoustic guitar
Date: 08 Apr 2001 19:45:44 GMT
Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/)

I plug my guitar into a Baggs Para Acoustic DI and then into a board for the
main speakers and monitors. I'd like to buy an effects box to "sweeten" up the
sound a little - add a little reverb and some chorus. I tried a Boss AD3 and
liked it. I'd be curious to know what others have tried and liked - or haven't
liked. My preference is for the effects box to offer multiple effects and to
be battery operated so I don't have to bother with "wall warts" and power
chords. Anyone have experience with the Toneworks Pandora's Box?

Thank-you,

Bob

From: David Kilpatrick <david@maxwellplace...>
Subject: Re: Request info on Pandora's Box effects for acoustic guitar
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:15:35 +0100
Organization: Icon Publications Ltd

BNmartin54 wrote:
>
> I plug my guitar into a Baggs Para Acoustic DI and then into a board for the
> main speakers and monitors. I'd like to buy an effects box to "sweeten" up the
> sound a little - add a little reverb and some chorus. I tried a Boss AD3 and
> liked it. I'd be curious to know what others have tried and liked - or haven't
> liked. My preference is for the effects box to offer multiple effects and to
> be battery operated so I don't have to bother with "wall warts" and power
> chords. Anyone have experience with the Toneworks Pandora's Box?
>
Yes. Version 1 is reasonably good but eats batteries and is a little weak casing-wise,
Version 2 is excellent, and the latest Version 3 is rubbish - needs mini AAA cell
batteries which hardly last any time, had a useless bassline function with its rythms, and
a very poor sampling memory for riff learning and no other use. In exchange for this extra
stuff, you get no proper stereo reverbs or echoes, and they don't even bother to create
new mono ones - you just LOSE the ping in the ping-pong effect!

So look for a Version 2, they are great, very robust, a little noisy if used to the
extreme, but they have a decent metronome or rythm function for practicing, a pretty good
tuner function (chromatic), and several very neat presets which work well for acoustic.
The rest of the presets you can just wipe out and reprogramme, like I have done, with a
range of chorus-reverb-echo settings for different rooms.

David

JamMan vs. Boomerrang [9]
From: Michaelhamrick <michaelhamrick@aol...>
Subject: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: 02 May 2001 17:21:08 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Anyone ever try the Boomerrang sampling/delay product? I know it is supposed
to have some great features and performance and that is works similar to the
JamMan product. However, any thoughts or comments would be greatly
appreciated. Also, anyone know where to find these and/or where to find the
best deall? Michael

From: Bob Dorgan <d77737@epix...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:11:27 GMT
Organization: what, me worry?

Michaelhamrick wrote:
>
> Anyone ever try the Boomerrang sampling/delay product? I know it is supposed
> to have some great features and performance and that is works similar to the
> JamMan product. However, any thoughts or comments would be greatly
> appreciated. Also, anyone know where to find these and/or where to find the
> best deall? Michael

I have a boomerang.
It's a good little unit, but in a comparison to the JamMan there is no
comparison. When multi-layering parts on a Boomerang there is definite
sound degradation. That degradation is not evident on the JamMan.
If you're only going to use a Boomerang for screwing around at home or
small gigs where you're going to loop 1 guitar part to solo over, it's
okay. But for the full blown Keaggy effect the JamMan is much better.
Bob Dorgan

From: Carlos Alden <calden@iea...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:59:32 GMT
Organization: Verio

In article <<3AF04E25.50A1@epix...>>, <d77737@epix...> wrote:

>Michaelhamrick wrote:
>>
>> Anyone ever try the Boomerrang sampling/delay product? I know it is supposed
>> to have some great features and performance and that is works similar to the
>> JamMan product. However, any thoughts or comments would be greatly
>> appreciated. Also, anyone know where to find these and/or where to find the
>> best deall? Michael
>
>I have a boomerang.
>It's a good little unit, but in a comparison to the JamMan there is no
>comparison. When multi-layering parts on a Boomerang there is definite
>sound degradation. That degradation is not evident on the JamMan.
>If you're only going to use a Boomerang for screwing around at home or
>small gigs where you're going to loop 1 guitar part to solo over, it's
>okay. But for the full blown Keaggy effect the JamMan is much better.
>Bob Dorgan

A few other possibilities are the Line 6 Delay/Loop pedal, about $260.
Functions as a delay, echo, and looper, with I think about 20 seconds of
looping capability. Also is the Akai Headrush pedal, about $250 ( i have
this one) which does the same thing but has a slightly longer looping
time. You can choose to layer on top of the initial loop. Both have
good sound quality, better than the boomerang, IMO, which I have played
with .

Carlos

--
-Alternative and Trad Celtic Music with THE CELTIC NOTS
go to: www.celticnots.com
-THE NACHO CELTIC HOUR: Celtic, Folk, and Kids' Music on the Radio!
go to: www.kpbx.org/programs/nacho.htm

From: Carlos Alden <calden@iea...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:58:31 GMT
Organization: Verio

In article <<3AF05B93.6D1D@epix...>>, <d77737@epix...> wrote:

>> A few other possibilities are the Line 6 Delay/Loop pedal, about $260.
>> Functions as a delay, echo, and looper, with I think about 20 seconds of
>> looping capability. Also is the Akai Headrush pedal, about $250 ( i have
>> this one) which does the same thing but has a slightly longer looping
>> time. You can choose to layer on top of the initial loop. Both have
>> good sound quality, better than the boomerang, IMO, which I have played
>> with .
>>
>> Carlos
>>
> Funny, the Akai unit I tried out didn't work very well.
>Maybe it was defective-- the sound was not very good-even on one layer.
>Bob Dorgan

Bob:

I really heard a big difference between the Boomerang and the Akai. On
one layer it was virtually a digital recording. If you are interested,
you might want to try one again. Please note: I am not trying to sell
the Akai in any way , shape, or form. There are some things I dislike
about it - the footswitch is a very noisy "click", making it barely usable
in a low-volume (acoustic) situation, and the switch to change it from a
delay pedal to looper is a simple slider switch, so one has to bend down
and change it over - why in the world didn't they make that a footswitch,
too? But the sound quality is fine.

Carlos

--
-Alternative and Trad Celtic Music with THE CELTIC NOTS
go to: www.celticnots.com
-THE NACHO CELTIC HOUR: Celtic, Folk, and Kids' Music on the Radio!
go to: www.kpbx.org/programs/nacho.htm

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:26:45 -0400

I've a JamMan and an Akai Headrush. The HeadRush is a cool unit to be sure,
probably one of the best budget loopers, and it does a pretty credible
Echoplex imatation. I agree with Carlos about the footswitch when playing
quite passages, especially if you use a spring reverb....(boing).... The
JamMan can be sync'ed to a MIDI drum machine and a MIDI foot controller (to
change loops) to pull off some great looping stuff live. I've used this
setup with the drum machine set as a click-track for timing purposes back
when I played electric guitar in a band. Once you get the hang of hitting
the footswitch on time you can really do some fun stuff. Having a MIDI foot
controller allows you to call up most of the JamMan parameters instantly
(delay, sampler, start/stop recording, trigger, reverse - way cool btw). If
you want the Caddy of looping units, the Oberheim Digital Echoplex is the
way to go. They're tough to locate (is Gibson still distributing Oberheim?),
and stupid expensive unless looping is your thing. A great resource is the
looper's delight webpage (www.loopersdelight.com). They're a great wealth of
knowledge about anything and everything looping.

peace,

jb

"Bob Dorgan" <<d77737@epix...>> wrote in message
news:<3AF08D42.2403@epix...>...
> Carlos Alden wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info Carlos, I will give one another try.
> I don't need the complexity of the JamMan, but I'd sure like to use a
> looper in live situations.
> Bob Dorgan

From: David Kilpatrick <david@maxwellplace...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:27:07 +0100
Organization: Icon Publications Ltd

Michaelhamrick wrote:
>
> Anyone ever try the Boomerrang sampling/delay product? I know it is supposed
> to have some great features and performance and that is works similar to the
> JamMan product. However, any thoughts or comments would be greatly
> appreciated. Also, anyone know where to find these and/or where to find the
> best deall?

I acquired one after seeing one used with a JamMan. Verdict: very tricky
to get the input/output well balanced, and you really need both a DI and
preamp between the guitar and JamMan, and a further preamp after it.
Plus you can use a swell pedal in line for the best effects and the
impedance for this is equally critical.

The reason is that you can adjust the impedance/sensitivity of the
Boomerant input to match your pickup, but as you do so, the volume ratio
between dry signal and loop signal changes. Then you adjust this, and
this alters the impedence again - so you have to juggle two controls.
For one guitar only, with a pickup which just happens to suit the
machine, you can tape the controls in position and forget it. But
switching guitars, or using other echo and effect units in line (the
best way to exploit it) means problems.

It is a lo-fi sound, but OK. It is also mono, of course. I had great fun
with it but because of its very analog sort of behaviour (for a purely
digital device!) I found that rythmic timings could only really fit with
the soloist using it. It is extremely difficult to use to its full
potential with any other kind of backing, or other players. Not
impossible but difficult, you have to be accurate to 1/100th of a second
with your foot on the buttons and get your playing tempo perfect too.

In the end I decided it was a cool way to create some great personal
solo sounds but a rather selfish device for the audience (they get bored
with loop FX drones and chord repeats) and other players (they can't
compete with the richness and completeness of the result, and you can't
usefully play along with them).

In contrast the JamMan has a pure, clean sound and can be used to
trigger more different samples of shorter duration more accurate, can be
MIDI synced and all that stuff. I believe there is a new BOSS unit which
actually does 5 minutes of loop recording including overlayering and
reverse, like the Boomerang, a seven different sample storage areas more
like the JamMan, and only costs about $395. My local guitar shop
newsletter has this in it and it looks worth invetsigating. The good
thing about multi-bank samplers is you can store a verse while playing
(chords) then use that for a solo break, machine plays your chords
again, but you can also store B and C parts, or even pre store a 'hit'
or a riff. You can not do this with the Boomerang, it layers whatever
period you ask (2 seconds, 1 minute, 4 minutes) and that's it - that is
your repeat cycle until you wipe and start again.

David

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 19:20:45 -0400
Organization: Cornell University

Troubleman wrote:
>
> Having a MIDI foot
> controller allows you to call up most of the JamMan parameters instantly
> (delay, sampler, start/stop recording, trigger, reverse - way cool btw).

Yes, a MIDI foot controller will definitely improve your JamMan life!
I use a Rolls MIDIWizard with mine. However, not all front panel functions
are accessible thru MIDI---you can't select between loop/delay/or sample
modes, for instance. jb, if you know how, please pass the info along!
Maybe the later models added this?

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:10:01 -0400

Check with the folks in the loopers delight forum (loopersdelight.com);
there are those who've actually reprogrammed the eprom chip. Personally I
don't wanny fry mine....

jb

"Tom Loredo" <<loredo@spacenet...>> wrote in message
news:<3AF1E7CD.F838D021@spacenet...>...
> Troubleman wrote:
> >
> > Having a MIDI foot
> > controller allows you to call up most of the JamMan parameters instantly
> > (delay, sampler, start/stop recording, trigger, reverse - way cool btw).
>
> Yes, a MIDI foot controller will definitely improve your JamMan life!
> I use a Rolls MIDIWizard with mine. However, not all front panel
functions
> are accessible thru MIDI---you can't select between loop/delay/or sample
> modes, for instance. jb, if you know how, please pass the info along!
> Maybe the later models added this?
>
> Peace,
> Tom Loredo

From: hank alrich <walkinay@thegrid...>
Subject: Re: JamMan vs. Boomerrang
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:33:49 -0700
Organization: secret mountain

Bob Dorgan <<d77737@epix...>> wrote:

> Michaelhamrick wrote:

> > Anyone ever try the Boomerrang sampling/delay product? I know it is
> > supposed to have some great features and performance and that is works
> > similar to the JamMan product. However, any thoughts or comments would
> > be greatly appreciated. Also, anyone know where to find these and/or
> > where to find the best deall? Michael

> I have a boomerang.
> It's a good little unit, but in a comparison to the JamMan there is no
> comparison. When multi-layering parts on a Boomerang there is definite
> sound degradation. That degradation is not evident on the JamMan.
> If you're only going to use a Boomerang for screwing around at home or
> small gigs where you're going to loop 1 guitar part to solo over, it's
> okay. But for the full blown Keaggy effect the JamMan is much better.

Indeed. The Bommer folks have recently upgraded the sampling rate and a
few other small things, so the quality now, though still not in the
JamMan league, is better than it was.

Boomerang Musical Products
http://www.boomerangmusic.com/

-- 

     "You got to get it while you can!"
To order the four-CD set of "RAP 3 Times" see
      http://www.hoohahrecords.com/rap
A Public Service Announcement from secret mountain

Acoustic guitar and distortion effects [10]
From: ken <ken@bsc...>
Subject: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: 17 May 2001 19:15:17 -0500

This may be a ridiculous thought but I wonder how many of you have ever used
distortion effects for your acoustic guitar. I am not an electric guitar
player...never will be. However, there are a few songs (acoustic in nature)
that sound gritty. There must be something that can give me a distortion
type effect without muddying the sound too much. Does anyone have any
recommendations? Thanks.

Ken

From: George Gleason <g.p.gleason@worldnet...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:45:42 GMT
Organization: AT&T Worldnet

ken <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
news:3b0468e0$0$21699$<45beb828@newscene...>...
> This may be a ridiculous thought but I wonder how many of you have ever
used
> distortion effects for your acoustic guitar. I am not an electric guitar
> player...never will be. However, there are a few songs (acoustic in
nature)
> that sound gritty. There must be something that can give me a distortion
> type effect without muddying the sound too much. Does anyone have any
> recommendations? Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
> A foot pedal efx unit would do try a Ibanez ts-9
George Gleason

From: Larry Sprigg <gsprigg@aol...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: 18 May 2001 00:46:28 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

My son has a Zoom 505 I messed around with. It has all the distortion stuff
you could want. Not my thing, but fun one afternnoon.

I use an Alesis Nanoverb for subtle effects (not distortion) with acoustics
sometimes. It is cheap ($130), simple to use, small and light to carry, well
made, and adds just enough effect to improve a sound without becoming the
sound.

Larry

To reply via E-Mail, please remove the "nojunk" from my address

From: <minette@minn...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 01:07:46 GMT

Toys I have used with my acoustics include a Matchless Hotbox (tube
preamp pedal with gain, treble and bass controls, CE-2 chorus pedal,
compressor pedal, Peavey Valveverb, and a Digitech GSP7 processor.
The Hotbox pedal gives the nicest overall "distortion" .

On 17 May 2001 19:15:17 -0500, "ken" <<ken@bsc...>> wrote:

>This may be a ridiculous thought but I wonder how many of you have ever used
>distortion effects for your acoustic guitar. I am not an electric guitar
>player...never will be. However, there are a few songs (acoustic in nature)
>that sound gritty. There must be something that can give me a distortion
>type effect without muddying the sound too much. Does anyone have any
>recommendations? Thanks.
>
>Ken
>
>

From: Hussman <dfhussey1@homenospan...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 03:31:42 GMT
Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster

I used to play heavy metal, and I still have the amp. As I recall, I really
liked the sound of Boss distortion pedals, but not much beats a good tube
amp.

Sometimes I play my acoustic through it, but unless the gain is low, I
usually get excessive feedback with open strings, resonance I guess.

dfh

"ken" <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
news:3b0468e0$0$21699$<45beb828@newscene...>...
> This may be a ridiculous thought but I wonder how many of you have ever
used
> distortion effects for your acoustic guitar. I am not an electric guitar
> player...never will be. However, there are a few songs (acoustic in
nature)
> that sound gritty. There must be something that can give me a distortion
> type effect without muddying the sound too much. Does anyone have any
> recommendations? Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
>

From: Hojo2x <hojo2x@aol...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: 18 May 2001 06:51:09 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

I love using a little bit of distortion, with discretion. By that I mean very
sparingly - my own self-imposed rule of thumb is that you can only use an
effect once a set. Any more than that and you're jerking off.

Anyway, the effects that I've found most useful with acoustic guitar and
mountain dulcimer are

1.) a nice warm distortion,

2.) chorus ,

and

3.) echo and/or reverb.

I'll also use digital delay, but only very lightly, and even then more rarely
than the others.

With all the effects possible nowadays, particularly with these digital amps
that can download new sounds from the Web (or whatever,) you still have to see
if they work with any given SONG, and by work I mean if they advance it
musically.

At least nine times out of ten (maybe 99 times out of a hundred) they won't.

But every so often with effects you can make musical and emotional points that
can be made in no other other way, especially if you keep them subtle, direct
and relatively rare.

Don't feel that, in order to get your money's worth, you've got to keep the
damned things turned on all the time....

Hope that makes sense.

Wade Hampton Miller

From: David <pickups@rmi...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:02:47 -0700
Organization: Internet Commerce & Communications

There's a great local player around here named Jaquie Gipson who uses an
E-bow on her acoustics.
When the E-bow volume swell hits a certain point, some part of the signal
chain (probably the amp input following a pre-amp) starts to break up and
really squeal with high harmonics. By playing around this feedback/overdrive
threshold, she can get some sounds that sound like the guitar one moment,
then morph into something from another planet. By doing hammer-ons and
harmonics while the E-bow is working on a string is really cool. Tapping
clean bass lines on the low strings while the high E string is wailing like
an Irish flute. Pretty cool stuff.
Jaquie mostly plays tap style guitar like Billy McLaughlin and Hedges. We
hope to be featuring her on our site sometime soon.
David Enke
Pick-up the World
www.pick-uptheworld.com
<pickups@rmi...>
800-375-2656

Tom from Texas <<trisner52@aol...>> wrote in message
news:<20010517233704.09494.00000204@ng-cp1...>...
> Ken warped:
> >This may be a ridiculous thought but I wonder how many of you have ever
used
> >distortion effects for your acoustic guitar.
>
> Best distortion I've ever seen on acoustic guitar was Jeff Sherman. Of
course,
> the distortion wasn't in the sound of the guitar.
>
> Tom from Texas

From: M Musement <mmusement@aol...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: 18 May 2001 15:21:23 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Ken,

	Try using a "Y" cable to split the signal from your guitar. One leg goes to
the normal input for a clean sound. The second to the effect. To carry this to
the greatest potential, if you have two pickups on the guitar, direct one to
the effect and keep one clean. I like to use magnetic or USP for the effected
side.

	 The "Y" trick  also is great on electric. I like to "ride" the distortion
channel by keeping it's overall gain lower than the clean. By doing this, when
you play lightly the clean sound will dominate and when you dig in the effected
sound will "come forward" in the mix.. 

	 From various fate of mankind and civilization as we know it conversations,
conclusions were reached that in the '50s the young white pups listened to
records of the old african american acoustic blues guys distort their sound by
smacking the string as much if not more than playing it. When electicity came
into the picture, the amps they could afford were cheap and small and they were
so in the habit of laying into the string, that crankin the amp up to be heard
in rowdy bars created the "sound" that people are still seeking via computer
models and algorythms. This is suspected as the first step in the evolution of
distorto guitar or the creation of toilet paper ear plugs, we were not
sure..... ran out of beer 

				AUDIOS,
				Christopher
From: =Bob= <bob@sdg...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 08:50:21 -0700
Organization: University of Idaho

Hi Ken,

I've been using a Bos VF-1 to play with
distortion, flanging, reverb and amp modeling.
I think the unit is a little bit noisy, but it does
have the ability to emulate hi gain preamps.
It's 24 bit digital modeling, and I'm quite
happy with thje sounds. I use it with my
Ovation and a Fishman Rare Earth HB pickup.
It can sound quite nasty when I want it to.
The device isn't cheap, about $399 on the
street. Harmony Central has some reviews.

=Bob=

"ken" <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
news:3b0468e0$0$21699$<45beb828@newscene...>...
: This may be a ridiculous thought but I wonder how many of you have ever
used
: distortion effects for your acoustic guitar. I am not an electric guitar
: player...never will be. However, there are a few songs (acoustic in
nature)
: that sound gritty. There must be something that can give me a distortion
: type effect without muddying the sound too much. Does anyone have any
: recommendations? Thanks.
:
: Ken
:
:

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic guitar and distortion effects
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:03:59 -0400

You'll get the best distortion using a soundhole pickup to drive the
distortion box. For acoustic guitar I've gotten the best results with those
"modeling" distortion pedals. I've been goofing with a ancient BOSS chorus
(the big silver one) and an echoplex - interesting....

peace,

jb

"ken" <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
news:3b0468e0$0$21699$<45beb828@newscene...>...
> This may be a ridiculous thought but I wonder how many of you have ever
used
> distortion effects for your acoustic guitar. I am not an electric guitar
> player...never will be. However, there are a few songs (acoustic in
nature)
> that sound gritty. There must be something that can give me a distortion
> type effect without muddying the sound too much. Does anyone have any
> recommendations? Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
>

volume pedal for acoustic and electric [9]
From: Earl <buffaloearl@my-deja...>
Subject: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: 21 May 2001 11:13:37 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

OK...I've looked at several old posts regarding volume pedals, but due
to my relatively low IQ, still don't know what to do..., here is my
specific quandry..

I want an Ernie Ball volume pedal that I can use with my fender
strat...either straight from the instrument, or in the effects loop (a
Marshall combo amp)...I also want to be able to use it with my
acoustic guitar...(I have a taylor run through a Raven Labs Master
Blender)....

Is it possible to have one pedal for both situations without it
sounding terrible on one or both guitars? If so, which model to use?
the 500K, 250K, or the 25K?

thanks in advance!
Earl

From: Dirk Offringa <dirk.offringa@free...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:24:44 GMT
Organization: Guest of ProXad - France

Hi

I use a Morley Volume pedal on both acoustic and electric guitars. I have
the unit for at least 10, maybe more years. These pedals are very
satisfactory, soundwise, in both situations. I think they are transparent.
The Morleys have one huge advantage over the Erny Ball I owned before: the
pedal doesn't action a pot (which, apart from purely mechanical problems,
has a tendancy to wear out with giving distortion, cracks, noise of all
kind) but a kind of progressive obturator sliding between the emitter and
the receiver of an optocoupler. It's out of the way of the signalpath, and
most reliable.

Bye
Dirk

--

Earl <<buffaloearl@my-deja...>> a écrit dans le message :
<4aa59013.0105211013.724abc4e@posting...>...
> OK...I've looked at several old posts regarding volume pedals, but due
> to my relatively low IQ, still don't know what to do..., here is my
> specific quandry..
>
> I want an Ernie Ball volume pedal that I can use with my fender
> strat...either straight from the instrument, or in the effects loop (a
> Marshall combo amp)...I also want to be able to use it with my
> acoustic guitar...(I have a taylor run through a Raven Labs Master
> Blender)....
>
> Is it possible to have one pedal for both situations without it
> sounding terrible on one or both guitars? If so, which model to use?
> the 500K, 250K, or the 25K?
>
> thanks in advance!
> Earl

From: Heinrich Bietz <heinrich.bietz@ptb...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:07:35 +0200
Organization: PTB

That's true so far. The Morleys give you a nice and smooth control over the
volume. One thing you should be aware of is that these pedals may suck a
little bit of your tone when you pluck a guitar with a passive pickup (like
the Strat or most other electrics) straight into it. The reason is that there
is no input buffer for the signal, at least in the version I have (Basic Wah
Volume, ca. 15 years old). You can escape this by either adding an input
buffer to the pedal, using an other effect before it or put it in the effect
loop.

Heinrich

Dirk Offringa schrieb:

> Hi
>
> I use a Morley Volume pedal on both acoustic and electric guitars. I have
> the unit for at least 10, maybe more years. These pedals are very
> satisfactory, soundwise, in both situations. I think they are transparent.
> The Morleys have one huge advantage over the Erny Ball I owned before: the
> pedal doesn't action a pot (which, apart from purely mechanical problems,
> has a tendancy to wear out with giving distortion, cracks, noise of all
> kind) but a kind of progressive obturator sliding between the emitter and
> the receiver of an optocoupler. It's out of the way of the signalpath, and
> most reliable.
>
> Bye
> Dirk
>
> --
>

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:17:45 -0400

Unfortunately, the volume pedals that work best on electric guitar ain't the
best ones for acoustic. For my electrics I use either Morley (cause they're
well built but reasonably cheap) or an ancient Goodrich (the best one ever
made - period). For acoustic, unless you want 1/2 of your tone sucked out,
get one of the volume pedals that keyboard players use. Mine is made by
BOSS; it has dual volume inputs and outputs, and doubles as an expression
pedal as well. The Morley and even my beloved Goodrich suck tone out of
acoustic guitars, but sound absolutely great for my electric rig(s).

peace,

Troubleman

"Earl" <<buffaloearl@my-deja...>> wrote in message
news:<4aa59013.0105211013.724abc4e@posting...>...
> OK...I've looked at several old posts regarding volume pedals, but due
> to my relatively low IQ, still don't know what to do..., here is my
> specific quandry..
>
> I want an Ernie Ball volume pedal that I can use with my fender
> strat...either straight from the instrument, or in the effects loop (a
> Marshall combo amp)...I also want to be able to use it with my
> acoustic guitar...(I have a taylor run through a Raven Labs Master
> Blender)....
>
> Is it possible to have one pedal for both situations without it
> sounding terrible on one or both guitars? If so, which model to use?
> the 500K, 250K, or the 25K?
>
> thanks in advance!
> Earl

From: Earl <buffaloearl@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: 22 May 2001 10:36:37 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

well, Ernie Ball said, if it's in an effects loop, the 25K will
work...but I should check with the manufacturer for an appropriate
input impedence....Raven Labs said the 25K would be best used in the
effects loop, and thought it would be fine for the Marshall amp
effects loop, but I should check with them as well. Sounds like, if I
were to go straight from the electric (no effects loop), I need
ultra-high impedence (500K or higher, like the old Goodrich's that
were 1500K)....otherwise, low impedence is best....

the saga continues...still leaning towards the Ernie Ball, even though
the 25K stereo pedal is $100.....

Blessings,
Earl

From: Akbar Anwari <anwari@snet...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:07:22 -0400
Organization: SNET Internet

You can make a 250K Ernie Ball pedal work with a guitar with onboard
preamp...work well, too. My current setup is a bit rickety, but the
concept works.

The onboard preamp makes the signal Low Z, which doesn't work with the
250K pedal. You need to make the signal High Z to make it work right.

I took a standard passive Low Z/High Z transformer. You can find these
anywhere. They have a male 1/4" plug on one end, and a female Canon/XLR
connector on the other Mine's a Shure. They cost anywhere from $12-20
USD. From there, you'll need to construct or purchase a 1/4" female to
male 1/4" connector. I cut up a cord to make this, but you can buy them
at AMS, I think. Connect the XLR's together, and plug the male 1/4"
into the input of the volume pedal. Then plug in using an extra cord.
As I said, a bit rickety, but I'm sure a more solid version could be
built.

You may want to watch the length of the cord following the volume pedal
to the PA/Amp. Being High Z, you can lose highs if the cord is too
long.

Kap'n

Earl wrote:
>
> well, Ernie Ball said, if it's in an effects loop, the 25K will
> work...but I should check with the manufacturer for an appropriate
> input impedence....Raven Labs said the 25K would be best used in the
> effects loop, and thought it would be fine for the Marshall amp
> effects loop, but I should check with them as well. Sounds like, if I
> were to go straight from the electric (no effects loop), I need
> ultra-high impedence (500K or higher, like the old Goodrich's that
> were 1500K)....otherwise, low impedence is best....
>
> the saga continues...still leaning towards the Ernie Ball, even though
> the 25K stereo pedal is $100.....
>
> Blessings,
> Earl

From: Earl <buffaloearl@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: 23 May 2001 04:34:27 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

yea, it seems to make the most sense to stick with the low-Z....the
only disadvantage being, if I'm in a pinch, and don't have an effects
loop to work with, I'm in trouble...but, that shouldn't ever really
happen. Plus, the 250K Ernie Ball only comes in mono....I'm sure I
will appreciate having two guitars hooked up to one pedal....
Blessings,
Earl

> Loading a high impedance source with a low impedance load doesn't work,
> but the other way around shouldn't cause trouble. What symptoms do you
> observe that lead you to say it doesn't work?
>
> But if the source is low impedance, why not go with a Lo-Z pedal and
> retain the benefits of fairly low impedance post-pedal to the amp?

From: Bill <bwillis9@ix...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:06:06 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises

Akbar Anwari wrote:

> You can make a 250K Ernie Ball pedal work with a guitar with onboard
> preamp...work well, too. My current setup is a bit rickety, but the
> concept works.
>
> The onboard preamp makes the signal Low Z, which doesn't work with the
> 250K pedal. You need to make the signal High Z to make it work right.

I'm curious -- in what way doesn't it work right using the 250k pedal with
your guitar's low-impedance output? Having a too-low source impedance
rarely causes any problems in my experience.

From: Earl <buffaloearl@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: volume pedal for acoustic and electric
Date: 24 May 2001 10:00:20 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

What's the deal with the Boss FV300L? Looks comparable to the Ernie
Ball but with the added benefit of a minimum volume knob, and the
tuner out (the Ernie ball I'm looking at, model 6167, doesn't have the
tuner out)?? I hear Pierre Bensusan and Phil Keaggy both use
these...they seem to know what they're doing....

Do they hold up? Harmony Central reviews show some people have the
pedal slipping after a while, making it useless? Who's got 'em, and
what do you think of it?

thanks,
ET

RC-20 Loopstation
From: Dick Thaxter <rtha@loc...>
Subject: Re: RC-20 Loopstation
Date: 22 May 2001 13:27:54 GMT
Organization: Library of Congress

In <9edlj8$nfp$<1@bob...>>, "Troubleman" <<Troubleman@rocketmail...>> writes:
>I've alway wondered why Roland/Boss hadn't jumped to fill the void left by
>the departure of the JamMan. For that matter, why hasn't Lexicon come out
>with a second generation JamMan. There's sort of a pseudo-JamMan built into
>one of their multi-effects processors, but a full-blown JamMan would be a
>big seller....
>
>anybody got the dope on the Boss product?
>
>Troubleman

I've seen two posts by veteran players in another forum that praised
it highly. It's in stock in DC area stores for about $250.

Dick Thaxter

>
>"ken" <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
>news:3b09a5d6$0$36585$<45beb828@newscene...>...
>> I hear a new product is out. It's the RC-20 Loopstation. I think it's by
>> Boss or maybe Roland. It is a looping pedal with 5 minutes of playback
>> time. Anyone hear anything on this?
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>
>

Multiple effects pedals. I need help
From: ken <ken@bsc...>
Subject: Multiple effects pedals. I need help
Date: 29 May 2001 19:57:06 -0500

Hi all,

I'm in the process of getting two new effects pedals, a looping device and a
the Baggs para DI pre-amp. What is the best way to run this with my amp?
Should I plug the guitar into the looping device, then to the pre-amp, and
then my amp? Or should I reverse the looping device and the pre-amp? Your
help is much appreciated.

Ken

Multiple effects pedals. I need help [4]
From: David <pickups@rmi...>
Subject: Re: Multiple effects pedals. I need help
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 20:54:18 -0700
Organization: Internet Commerce & Communications

Hi Ken,
if you have a pre-amp in the instrument, the order won't matter as much.
Generally for the loopers, you want to get the signal up to a good level
before driving the sampler. You will get less noise that way. I would go
PADI to the looper to the amp. There is also a effects loop in the Baggs for
which you will need a stereo cable splitting to two monos to use. I'm not
sure what this would do for the sound or if it would be an improvement over
just running the output of the PADI into the looper. I guess it would depend
on whether the loop is pre or post e.q. in the Baggs. My guess is that it is
post.
David Enke
Pick-up the World
www.pick-uptheworld.com
<pickups@rmi...>
800-375-2656
ken <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
news:3b1444c8$0$732$<45beb828@newscene...>...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm in the process of getting two new effects pedals, a looping device and
a
> the Baggs para DI pre-amp. What is the best way to run this with my amp?
> Should I plug the guitar into the looping device, then to the pre-amp, and
> then my amp? Or should I reverse the looping device and the pre-amp?
Your
> help is much appreciated.
>
> Ken
>
>

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Multiple effects pedals. I need help
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 00:57:54 -0400
Organization: Cornell University

David wrote:
>
> Hi Ken,
> if you have a pre-amp in the instrument, the order won't matter as much.
> Generally for the loopers, you want to get the signal up to a good level
> before driving the sampler. You will get less noise that way. I would go
> PADI to the looper to the amp.

Yes, that's the way to go. The PADI actually produces a bit of distortion.
It's the "good" kind, but the more complicated the signal it gets, the
more messy the distortion products will be. No sense feeding it all the
layers coming from the looper.

If you have a passive pickup (no battery in the guitar), you really
have to put the PADI first.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: Multiple effects pedals. I need help
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:52:33 -0400

Depends upon what type of looping device you're using. I have a HeadRush
looper/delay unit and a Lexicon JamMan. If it's a JamMan, it'd be best in
the loop of your amp (if it has one). If it's a floor unit (Line6 Delay
Modeler, HeadRush, Roland RC-20, etc), I'd probably put it after the Para DI
and before the amp. For the HeadRush unit that seems to be the best location
for both looping and delay effects.

peace,

jb

"ken" <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
news:3b1444c8$0$732$<45beb828@newscene...>...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm in the process of getting two new effects pedals, a looping device and
a
> the Baggs para DI pre-amp. What is the best way to run this with my amp?
> Should I plug the guitar into the looping device, then to the pre-amp, and
> then my amp? Or should I reverse the looping device and the pre-amp?
Your
> help is much appreciated.
>
> Ken
>
>

From: Lumpy <lumpy@digitalcartography...>
Subject: Re: Multiple effects pedals. I need help
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:04:37 -0700

Troubleman talked about:
Effects...Head Rush...looper/delay
...JamMan...floor unit...

I find that I like to delay getting looped
till after I Jam Man. Don't care for the
effects of a fast Head Rush. Just turns
me into a floor unit.

lump

Boss RS-20 Loopstation review [4]
From: ken <ken@bsc...>
Subject: Boss RS-20 Loopstation review
Date: 4 Jun 2001 20:10:12 -0500

I just got my new toy in the mail today--the Boss RS-20 Loopstation. I
absolutely love it. It is extremely easy to use, has up to 5 minutes and 30
seconds of record time, and 10 separate phases you can record and save for
future use. There are jacks in the back for a cd player and a foot pedal to
change from phase to phase if you so desire. You can plug both your
instrument and vocals in at the same time and record and playback both. It
has a tempo feature which gives you a cool beat if you want to use it. It
has an auto-start feature which allows recording to begin when you start
playing.

All in all, this is a great little unit. It's very small and as I said,
very very easy to use. I highly recommend this product.

Ken (not affiliated with Boss in any way)

From: Earl <buffaloearl@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: Boss RS-20 Loopstation review
Date: 5 Jun 2001 13:45:35 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

"Troubleman" wrote in message
> It's definately cheaper than a JamMan. Since they went out of production a
> few years back, the JamMan's asking price has gone "through the roof
> stupid". Of course the only real alternative (the Boomerang didn't do it
> for me) was the (recently reissued) Gibson/Oberheim Digital Echoplex Pro -
> the holy grail of loopers. It's selling price was even more "through the
> roof stupid" (2x) that of the inflated aftermarket price of the JamMan. I
> may be forced to investigate the RS-20....
>
> peace,
>
> jb
>

I've got to chime in here....alot of people haven't tried the new
boomerang which is quite a bit better than the older one...two
independant loops..variable decay rates...higher fidelity (with
reduced sampling time), no boundary clicks or pops...latching or
momentary overdub button...wow...it's very cool. still no MIDI, and
still no "undo" button (that's a big bummer for me, since I goof
things up on a regular basis)....but, I think you can get them for a
little over $400....

agreed that the Oberheim is the holy grail though...there's alot of
power in that thing...but, steep price tag..

Earl

From: ken <ken@bsc...>
Subject: Re: Boss RS-20 Loopstation review
Date: 5 Jun 2001 07:31:07 -0500

I got it from an internet music company called Sweetwater. It's a new unit
so alot of places still won't have it. It cost $249. Well worth the money.

Ken
Michael McCollum <<eadric@visi...>> wrote in message
news:MuZS6.316$<p3.18860@sydney...>...
>
> "ken" <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
> news:3b1c30e8$0$186$<45beb828@newscene...>...
> > I just got my new toy in the mail today--the Boss RS-20 Loopstation
>
> Where from and how much Ken? I read the review on this thing and it looks
to
> be a pretty neat gizmo as well as being cheaper than a JamMan (so I'm
told).
>
> Mike
>
>

From: Robert Walker <rowalker@peoplepc...>
Subject: Re: Boss RS-20 Loopstation review
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:32:57 -0700

A friend of mine who's been a JamMan player for years, sold his JamMan in
anticipation of the Boss unit. He tried two Boss units only to find that
there
is a problem with the decay being cut off prematurely in looped sections.
He
says its sounds like there's a noise gate built into the looping circuits.
He
bought another JamMan. For Line 6 uses, he notes that this "cut off" didn't
occur with the Delay Modeler. Has anyone else noticed this problem?

Bob

ken <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message
news:3b1c30e8$0$186$<45beb828@newscene...>...
> I just got my new toy in the mail today--the Boss RS-20 Loopstation. I
> absolutely love it. It is extremely easy to use, has up to 5 minutes and
30
> seconds of record time, and 10 separate phases you can record and save for
> future use. There are jacks in the back for a cd player and a foot pedal
to
> change from phase to phase if you so desire. You can plug both your
> instrument and vocals in at the same time and record and playback both.
It
> has a tempo feature which gives you a cool beat if you want to use it. It
> has an auto-start feature which allows recording to begin when you start
> playing.
>
> All in all, this is a great little unit. It's very small and as I said,
> very very easy to use. I highly recommend this product.
>
> Ken (not affiliated with Boss in any way)
>
>

Effects: Whose-What-Where-When [19]
From: MKarlo <mkarlo@aol...>
Subject: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 06 Jun 2001 22:44:12 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

We have alot of newbies, and I haven't seen a thread on the subject in awhile.
So here goes. I'm asking mainly those who play out. Do you use effects in
your signal chain? Why/Why not? If so, what brand/model? How do you utilize
them (i.e. a little light chorus on fingerstyle pieces only)? I'll go first.

1) Do you use effects in your signal chain? yes

2) Why? Just to add a little sparkle here there

3) Brand/Model? Lexicon MPX100

4) How do you utilize them? Very sparingly. Mostly reverb when in small,
heavily carpeted rooms; a little bit of almost undetectable chorus. Ocassional
rotary just to mess with my keyboardist head.

Have fun.

mk

From: Michael McCollum <eadric@visi...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:50:59 -0400

"MKarlo" <<mkarlo@aol...>> wrote in message
news:<20010606184412.23925.00002521@ng-df1...>...
> We have alot of newbies, and I haven't seen a thread on the subject in
awhile.
> So here goes. I'm asking mainly those who play out. Do you use effects
in
> your signal chain? Why/Why not? If so, what brand/model? How do you
utilize
> them (i.e. a little light chorus on fingerstyle pieces only)? I'll go
first.

OK, I'll dive in to keep the thread going

> 1) Do you use effects in your signal chain? yes
>
> 2) Why? Just to add a little sparkle here there
>
> 3) Brand/Model? Alesis chip on my Ultrasound amp
>
> 4) How do you utilize them? Very little, if at all. Usually just a touch
of hall reverb or maybe a little chorus for flavoring. I find that the more
FX I use, the greater the tendancy to play a little more sloppily than
normal.

Mike

From: John Sorell <jsorell@infi...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:56:41 -0600

Mitch,

When you say effects,what devices are to be included in that category?
Is it a well defined group?

Me? I don't know from effects.

John

MKarlo wrote:
>
> We have alot of newbies, and I haven't seen a thread on the subject in awhile.
> So here goes. I'm asking mainly those who play out. Do you use effects in
> your signal chain? Why/Why not? If so, what brand/model? How do you utilize
> them (i.e. a little light chorus on fingerstyle pieces only)? I'll go first.
>
> 1) Do you use effects in your signal chain? yes
>
> 2) Why? Just to add a little sparkle here there
>
> 3) Brand/Model? Lexicon MPX100
>
> 4) How do you utilize them? Very sparingly. Mostly reverb when in small,
> heavily carpeted rooms; a little bit of almost undetectable chorus. Ocassional
> rotary just to mess with my keyboardist head.
>
> Have fun.
>
> mk

From: MKarlo <mkarlo@aol...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 07 Jun 2001 00:14:18 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>No it isn't. I've heard the term used numerous times, but don't really
>know what is included in the term. I imagine a reverb and a chorus are
>since you mentioned using them. What else?
>
>John
>

Ooops! Sorry John. I always perceived you as the head great tester around
here, effects included.

The short list would include those two plus delay. Anything else would take it
out of the acoustic sounding realm IMHO. Some would say that's the case with
any effects. Hope this helps.

Mitch

From: Francis Guidry <fguidry@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 7 Jun 2001 08:37:21 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

John,

Here's a guitar effects FAQ that will get you started.

http://www.geofex.com/effxfaq/fxtaxon.htm

To summarize, though, effects are based on delay, eq, volume, and distortion.
Those qualities of the signal can be manipulated in many different ways to
produce different effects. For instance reverb, echo, phase, flange, and chorus
are different effects derived from delay.

Fran

John Sorell <<jsorell@infi...>> wrote in message news:<<3B1EB529.35CFCBCF@infi...>>...
> Mitch,
>
> When you say effects,what devices are to be included in that category?
> Is it a well defined group?
>
> Me? I don't know from effects.
>
> John

From: McCollum <mccollum@netshel...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:16:02 GMT
Organization: Verio

Yes, John.

Modulation is pitch shifting. It can also have a chorusing effect if used
lightly. But, John, the unit you need to buy is a TC Electronics 2290.
That way, when you're tired of it you can sell it to me real cheap and I can
play with it. :) I want one....! But if you really want to play with some
rack effects, come on over for a visit. I've got some cool toys. The
rack's only 4 foot high, though, and I can't fit anything more in there :(

Lance

McCollum Guitars
http://www.mccollumguitars.com

"John Sorell" <<jsorell@infi...>> wrote in message
news:<3B1FB6CA.69D90E9@infi...>...
> Steve,
>
> What do you mean by modulation? Something to do with shifting keys?
>
> John
>
> Steve wrote:
> >
> > <<To summarize, though, effects are based on delay, eq, volume, and
> > distortion.>>
> >
> > And modulation...
> > Steve (SEFSTRAT)
> > music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: MindSpring User <marte005@mindspring...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:46:57 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises

I use a Yamaha GEP 50. Usually set for room reverb as opposed to hall
reverb. Sometimes chorus or flanger.

Dave M.

From: T-Bone <d77737@capital...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:58:06 -0400
Organization: Logical Net

MKarlo wrote:
>

A little reverb on the guitar. Very little.
I use a Digitech Vocalist Harmonizer for vocals but I don't use the
harmony over 3 or 4 times a night. That has a built in reverb and I use
that unit for vocals. No chorus, or delay.
For my tastes, a little goes a long way.
Bob Dorgan

From: Steven <laswd@earthlink...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 6 Jun 2001 19:26:23 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

<mkarlo@aol...> (MKarlo) wrote in message news:<<20010606184412.23925.00002521@ng-df1...>>...
> 1) Do you use effects in your signal chain? yes
>
Yes...

> 2) Why? Just to add a little sparkle here there
>
To add depth and a sweetness to the overall tone..

> 3) Brand/Model? Lexicon MPX100
>
Alesis Q20 & Boss Super Chorus.

> 4) How do you utilize them?
>
I use the Q20 to get a reverb sound that is the best
I've ever heard - period! It takes up every bank
(which kinda stinks because I can't combine it with
anything else), but it adds a fullness and depth to
the sound yet barely reveals itself. It's like a
hall the size of a football stadium or something...
Pull-offs and hammer-ons (which I do quite a bit
of) don't have that ping, ping, ping, sound behind
them - they just sort of decay slowly... It's very
nice. Then I put some chorus on to add a touch of
flavor. I had a hard time dialing it in, but I think
I've got it where I want it now. I like it where it's
just barely noticeable (seems to be a theme here, eh?).
Maybe we're all purists at heart. ;-)

> Have fun.
>
That's the key right there! To anybody trying to
analyze the posts on this thread (either for or against
the use of effects), go with what your ears tell you.
If it feels good and brings that smile to your face,
then that's what the doctor ordered....

Keep Picking,

Steven Dillon

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 07 Jun 2001 04:05:16 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>
>
>1) Do you use effects in your signal chain?

Yup.

>
>2) Why? Just to add a little sparkle here there
>

To add ambience, mainly.

>3) Brand/Model? Lexicon MPX100
>

TC Electronics chorus/flange pedal, for acoustic guitar...sometimes the ART
acoustic pedal, instead.

>4) How do you utilize them
A touch of slow chorus....like playing as you walk slowly in a highly
reflective room.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: Dirk Offringa <dirk.offringa@free...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 07:07:03 GMT
Organization: Guest of ProXad - France

Hi

I just use some reverb from a Yamaha Rev 500. Why? Because I need some for
my vocals, and it would have been incoherent if I hadn't any on the guitar.
I used to put some chorus from a Roland Dimension D on my guitars too, but
now that I have better instruments, and better pick-ups I do not feel the
need anymore. The Dimension D did fine though: very discreet, nice stereo
effect. It seems like there's no processing, until you switch it off: all of
a sudden there's something missing.

I use another "effect" too, when playing piezo-amplified guitars that quack
a lot: a little cheap impedance transfo from Radio Shack, designed to adapt
high Z unbalanced signals to low Z balanced inputs. For some reason, the
mediocre quality of this transfo attenuates the quack a lot, and smoothens
the response of the piezo.

Bye
Dirk

MKarlo <<mkarlo@aol...>> a écrit dans le message :
<20010606184412.23925.00002521@ng-df1...>...
> We have alot of newbies, and I haven't seen a thread on the subject in
awhile.
> So here goes. I'm asking mainly those who play out. Do you use effects
in
> your signal chain? Why/Why not? If so, what brand/model? How do you
utilize
> them (i.e. a little light chorus on fingerstyle pieces only)? I'll go
first.
>
> 1) Do you use effects in your signal chain? yes
>
> 2) Why? Just to add a little sparkle here there
>
> 3) Brand/Model? Lexicon MPX100
>
> 4) How do you utilize them? Very sparingly. Mostly reverb when in
small,
> heavily carpeted rooms; a little bit of almost undetectable chorus.
Ocassional
> rotary just to mess with my keyboardist head.
>
> Have fun.
>
> mk

From: Chris Callahan <chrisc@blueridge...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:21:16 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com

Some reverb all the time....chorusing occasionally on fingerpicked slow
songs as the mood strikes.
Chris

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 08 Jun 2001 00:19:05 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>Steve,
>
>What do you mean by modulation? Something to do with shifting keys?
>
>John

No. Pitch shifts, though.

For instance, a chorus is based upon TWO effects: delay and modulation.

The delay is obvious...the 'second' voice produced by the chorus can be delayed
(in adjustable increments on most choirus devices) in relation to the dry
signal.

The modulation is the amount that the 'second' voice varies from the pitch of
the dry signal. This is also adjustable on many units.

(The third factor in a choruis is the speed with which the modulation occurs;
this, too, is often adjustable).

There are other devices using modulation as an effect, too: harmonizers,
octavers, ring modulators....

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:30:24 -0400
Organization: Cornell University

Steve wrote:
>
> <<To summarize, though, effects are based on delay, eq, volume, and
> distortion.>>
>
> And modulation...

Modulation just refers to changing the parameters of an effect with
time, and could apply to any of the previously mentioned types of
effects. For example, chorus and flange are two types of modulated
delay effect. Pitch shifters usually offer modulation, but modulation
isn't the source of the pitch shift (rather, it changes the pitch shift
slightly with time, emulating vibrato or tremolo). A wah pedal or
envelope filter is a modulated EQ effect.

An interesting one that doesn't quite fit the classification is
phase shifting, which is a modulation effect that isn't quite
a delay effect or an EQ effect....

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 08 Jun 2001 00:20:19 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

<<Modulation just refers to changing the parameters of an effect with
time, and could apply to any of the previously mentioned types of
effects. For example, chorus and flange are two types of modulated
delay effect. >>

I disagree. A dealy is a delay. Add modulation and you have a different
effect.

Saying it otherwise is like saying 'distortion is the same as clean, but with
more gain'.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: 08 Jun 2001 17:37:35 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>Thanks Steve,
>
>> The modulation is the amount that the 'second' voice varies from the pitch
>of
>> the dry signal. This is also adjustable on many units.
>
>Is this a pre-set adjustment? Such as a minor second, second, third,
>fifth, etc.? Or can you go "between" the notes of diatonic harmony?
>
>John

No....

A chorus puts 'vibrato' on the second voice (as opposed to the dry signal).
The width of that vibrato can be varied on many units. It's a fraction of a
step, but most will adjust to such a wide degree that you hear substantial
detuning if you overdo it.

Harmonizers will reproduce a second voice (and sometimes a third) at a given
interval, and 'intelligent' harmonizers will allow for the 'right' notes for
the key signature and typoe of scale.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: T-Bone <d77737@capital...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:46:24 -0400
Organization: what, me worry?

Steve wrote:

>
> Harmonizers will reproduce a second voice (and sometimes a third) at a given
> interval, and 'intelligent' harmonizers will allow for the 'right' notes for
> the key signature and typoe of scale.
>

This ability is a very important feature on a harmonizer.
I tried a couple and was convinced they were unusable for most songs
until I heard Steve use his Digitech. I bought one the next week.
Dorgan

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:37:01 -0400
Organization: Cornell University

Steve wrote:
>
> <<Modulation just refers to changing the parameters of an effect with
> time, and could apply to any of the previously mentioned types of
> effects. For example, chorus and flange are two types of modulated
> delay effect. >>
>
> I disagree. A dealy is a delay. Add modulation and you have a different
> effect.

Webster's defines modulate as "to vary the pitch, intensity, etc.". I.e.,
the point is variation.

The Digitech RDS series of digital delays had buttons on them that
you could press to modulate the delay to produce flange, chorus, etc..
They still sold the unit as a "digital delay."

Well, we're just bickering about terminology. I agree with you completely
that the net effect (how it sounds!) is completely different if you
add modulation. I just thought it was an interesting and neat point
that some readers may not have realized: echo, chorus, and flanging
are all created with the same basic topology: delay a signal and add
it back to itself, with some feedback in the loop. The only difference
is how much delay and feedback is used, and whether the amount of
delay is modulated.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Effects: Whose-What-Where-When
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:40:12 -0400
Organization: Cornell University

Steven wrote:
>
> I use the Q20 to get a reverb sound that is the best
> I've ever heard - period! It takes up every bank
> (which kinda stinks because I can't combine it with
> anything else), but it adds a fullness and depth to
> the sound yet barely reveals itself. It's like a
> hall the size of a football stadium or something...
> Pull-offs and hammer-ons (which I do quite a bit
> of) don't have that ping, ping, ping, sound behind
> them - they just sort of decay slowly... It's very
> nice.

Sounds cool! I have a Q2, and though I'm not crazy about it
in general, it has this sweet sounding looonngg reverb called
"Mexico City" or something like that (emulating a stadium there)
that I sometimes like to use in much the way you describe---just
a hint of it so you don't really notice it during the playing,
but it sounds sweetly ethereal during decays. Great for ballads
or moody new-agey pieces.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

Acoustic pickup?
From: Tom Loredo <loredo@spacenet...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic pickup?
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:49:48 -0400
Organization: Cornell University

Lumpy wrote:
>
> George W. wrote:
> > The PUTW is really intriguing...
>
> > ...I'm guessing that location
> > is the hardest part...
>
> It's the most variable part. But not
> hard. Plenty of RMMGA experiences
> to draw upon.

I think it's worth adding that not all of us have had such easy
success with PUTW. Speaking for myself, I've spent hours trying
dozens of locations and two different kinds of pickups and have
never been able to get a decent tone out of it without a ton of
EQ; and even then it has never really pleased me. There are others
with similar experiences. Yet Dirk's MP3 does sound good. So
I think it is fair to say that it works well and easily in some
guitars, and not so well or so easily in others.

> Since there are so
> many mounting options, it's much
> more variable than a UST pickup,
> which obviously mounts in only
> one spot.

It is also much more position sensitive than other soundboard
pickups. (This is neither a criticism nor a compliment, just
a fact.)

One distinguishing feature of PUTW is the warranty. You can return
it in 30 days with no better reason than "I just didn't like it." Also,
Dave Enke really wants it to work for everyone, and will bend over
backwards offering you advice with any difficulties you have---and he'll
still take it back and give you your money back if you're unhappy at
the end. So if it sounds interesting and you have the $$, it is
definitely worth a try.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

boss rc-20 looper [2]
From: samuel park <sampark@wayne...>
Subject: boss rc-20 looper
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:14:48 GMT
Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster

I just brought one of these home and played with it a bit.
I've been wanting a jamman for a while, but the prices on the used market
are ridiculous. This seems to be a good alternative.

The boss does 5 1/2 min of recording, that'll keep me busy for a while. It
does what it's supposed to, loop and overdub. You can't undo or save the
overdubs. You can save the loops, up to 10 of them and one 'one shot' in
non-volatile memory. You can't play the saved loops together. You can tap
the tempo for the loops. I hope this makes sense. There are other places to
get the details though.

I've only used a jamman once, a long time ago, so I can't compare. Although,
barring it's limitations the boss works well.

Someone mentioned that the decay gets cut off in the overdubs. There does
seem to be a gate of some sort, you need to get the level up to a certain
point or it won't capture the signal well. I'll need to play with the gain
on my preamp to counter this.

Price ranges from $250-300.

Anyone else have comments on this unit and comparisons to others?

From: Carlos Alden <calden@iea...>
Subject: Re: boss rc-20 looper
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 06:35:36 -0700
Organization: Verio

In article <I6mW6.79829$<DG1.13141436@news1...>>,

 "samuel park" <sampark@wayne.edu> wrote:
> I just brought one of these home and played with it a bit.
> I've been wanting a jamman for a while, but the prices on the used market
> are ridiculous. This seems to be a good alternative.
>
> The boss does 5 1/2 min of recording, that'll keep me busy for a while. It
> does what it's supposed to, loop and overdub. You can't undo or save the
> overdubs. You can save the loops, up to 10 of them and one 'one shot' in
> non-volatile memory. You can't play the saved loops together. You can tap
> the tempo for the loops. I hope this makes sense. There are other places to
> get the details though.
>
> I've only used a jamman once, a long time ago, so I can't compare. Although,
> barring it's limitations the boss works well.
>
> Someone mentioned that the decay gets cut off in the overdubs. There does
> seem to be a gate of some sort, you need to get the level up to a certain
> point or it won't capture the signal well. I'll need to play with the gain
> on my preamp to counter this.
>
> Price ranges from $250-300.
>
> Anyone else have comments on this unit and comparisons to others?

Are the footswitches silent, or do they resound with a loud "click"? I
have the Akai Headrush, and it's great (not nearly the length of loop as
the Boss, though) except for the loud CLICK when starting and playing
back the loops.

Carlos

--
-Alternative and Trad Celtic Music with THE CELTIC NOTS
go to: www.celticnots.com
-THE NACHO CELTIC HOUR: Celtic, Folk, and Kids' Music on the Radio!
go to: www.kpbx.org/programs/nacho.htm

Electric Effects for Acoustic? [3]
From: Penny White <pwhite2@prodigy...>
Subject: Electric Effects for Acoustic?
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:05:04 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com

Can electric guitar effects (such as Zoom 505) be used with acoustic
guitars? I've got a passive McIntyre pickup run thru a PADI and am looking
for an 'electric' sound for a couple of songs just for fun.
Thanks,
Penny

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Electric Effects for Acoustic?
Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:08:24 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>Can electric guitar effects (such as Zoom 505) be used with acoustic
>guitars?

Yes, although the deficiencies in the Zoom or other relatively inexpensive
units will be more readily apparent than with electric guitar.

Try using a very slight, slow chorus. A little compression can be a good
thing, too.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: Michael Welsh <monolith@neo...>
Subject: Re: Electric Effects for Acoustic?
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:12:55 GMT
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online -- Northeast Ohio

in article <20010829140824.18816.00009817@mb-mv...>, Steve at
<sefstrat@aol...> wrote on 8/29/01 2:08 PM:

>> Can electric guitar effects (such as Zoom 505) be used with acoustic
>> guitars?
>
> Yes, although the deficiencies in the Zoom or other relatively inexpensive
> units will be more readily apparent than with electric guitar.
>
> Try using a very slight, slow chorus. A little compression can be a good
> thing, too.
>
>
> Steve (SEFSTRAT)
> music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
>

Just picked up a Zoom 504II it's the acoustic model in the 500 series. A few
of the patches are a little noisy, but overall it's a great unit, especially
for the price. Yamaha will soon be coming out with their AG Stomp it lists
at a much higher price and should be an excellent unit as well. Here's a
link:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2001/AG-Stomp.html

I'm still hoping that Line 6 will release an Acoustic POD, that would be
cool. For now I'll enjoy the Zoom 504II.

--
Michael

³I play the guitar because it let¹s me dream out loud.² - Michael Hedges

multi-effects? [9]
From: Steve Woodward <stevew@bergenmachine...>
Subject: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:22:01 -0400
Organization: NetCarrier Internet Services

Hi all! I'd like to pick up a multi-effects processor like the Zoom 504, but
wondered if there were others I should take a look at? It would be used
strictly at home or jamming with friends, never professionally (my fingers
won't allow that!). Thanks for any input!

Steve W

From: Michael Welsh <monolith@neo...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:34:14 GMT
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online -- Northeast Ohio

in article bUrj7.149$<9t2.49668194@news...>, Steve Woodward at
<stevew@bergenmachine...> wrote on 8/30/01 10:22 AM:

> Hi all! I'd like to pick up a multi-effects processor like the Zoom 504, but
> wondered if there were others I should take a look at? It would be used
> strictly at home or jamming with friends, never professionally (my fingers
> won't allow that!). Thanks for any input!
>
> Steve W

I've really been enjoying my Zoom 504II, especially at it's price. In
September Yamaha is releasing it's AG Stomp and it looks to be a great
quality unit, probably more so than the 504II. Here's a link:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2001/AG-Stomp.html

I think DOD makes one too, but my past experience with their units has shown
them to be noisy, but who knows? I doubt it would sell very well to acoustic
players if it was really noisy. :-)

--
Michael

"Home,
build it behind your eyes
Carry it in your heart
Safe among your own" - James Taylor - Enough To Be On Your Way

From: Ed and Cori <edncori@qis...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:31:18 -0400
Organization: None here...

Steve, I've tried a good many multi-effect boxes for my electric guitars. I've
tried a Zoom 505, 3030, the reverb (507?), and the modulation (508?). They all
sound fine and are incredibly inexpensive but are skimpy on the controls...
that is, they don't give a lot of control over parameters. It is a fair amount
more to go with individual effect boxes but the ability to shape things the way
you want (as opposed to what is available) is worth a lot. I don't use much of
anything (effect wise) on acoustic guitar and for me, chorus and maybe a bit of
echo would be all that was needed. Other than that, a good preamp going into a
Korg A4 or Boss ME6 (both of which I've had great results from, esp. the Boss)
would probably be a little better (IMO). For a while, I had a couple banks of
my ME6 set up for electric and a couple banks set up for acoustic. Both of
these units can be found used for around the same price as the Zoom unit.

Your mileage will undoubtedly vary.
Ed

Steve Woodward wrote:

> Hi all! I'd like to pick up a multi-effects processor like the Zoom 504, but
> wondered if there were others I should take a look at? It would be used
> strictly at home or jamming with friends, never professionally (my fingers
> won't allow that!). Thanks for any input!
>
> Steve W

From: David Kilpatrick <david@maxwellplace...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:22:22 +0100
Organization: Icon Publications Ltd

Steve Woodward wrote:
>
> Hi all! I'd like to pick up a multi-effects processor like the Zoom 504, but
> wondered if there were others I should take a look at? It would be used
> strictly at home or jamming with friends, never professionally (my fingers
> won't allow that!). Thanks for any input!
>
If you can find the last (not current) version of the Korg Pandora -
model II - they are neat little fully programmable units which you can
slip in a pocket, and even run off batteries instead of a wallwart, and
use headphones with for practice. It also includes a pretty accurate
chromatic tuner, a metronome, and a set of usable rythm patterns. The
new version III adds a very poor phrase sampler for learning riffs, a
change to short-life AAA batteries, and has bugs in the stereo echoes,
plus an unusable bassline generator (who needs a bassline on ONE chord
or ONE pattern for ever?). The II has a generally better sound and
includes stuff which is great for acoustic, like ambience, compressor,
and amp cabinet simulator settings.

This is what I use, after getting rid of stomp boxes, because it goes in
the guitar case, people don't think you are cheating with some
electronic heavy metal stuff, and the effects are pretty much as good as
the footpedal Korg units.

David

From: No Busking <nobusking@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:40:20 -0400
Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America

David wrote:
> If you can find the last (not current) version of the Korg Pandora -
> model II - they are neat little fully programmable units which you can
> slip in a pocket, and even run off batteries instead of a wallwart, and
> use headphones with for practice.

I actually find the Pandora III much more useful than the II...I suppose
it's just that horses/courses thing. Not all the bass patterns are single
chord, BTW.

The Zoom would probably be more useful in a jam situation than either of
them, though. I personally prefer the ability to change settings with
footpedals when playing with others...wandering throught the Pandora menus
is a bit cryptic, and the effect parameters aren't as tweakable as the Zoom.

Actually, they probably are as tweakable, but you'd have to go through the
manual and memorize stuff like what "phaser 1" means vs. "phaser 2".

Cheers,

Mike

From: David Kilpatrick <david@maxwellplace...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:09:09 +0100
Organization: Icon Publications Ltd

No Busking wrote:
>
> David wrote:
> > If you can find the last (not current) version of the Korg Pandora -
> > model II - they are neat little fully programmable units which you can
> > slip in a pocket, and even run off batteries instead of a wallwart, and
> > use headphones with for practice.
>
> I actually find the Pandora III much more useful than the II...I suppose
> it's just that horses/courses thing. Not all the bass patterns are single
> chord, BTW.
>
But they are a fixed pattern. The real problem with the III is the
crippled ambience features which no longer give a true stereo ping-pong
echo or stereo reverb - they used the capacity to do other things, and
instead of offering a different mono effect, they just REMOVED one half
of the effect which I found really annoying! I love the stereo ambience
in the MODERN and AIR effects of the I and II and the III lost that. It
only sounds the same if you use a mono amp.

David

From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:36:48 -0400

David wrote:
> But they are a fixed pattern. The real problem with the III is the
> crippled ambience features which no longer give a true stereo ping-pong
> echo or stereo reverb - they used the capacity to do other things, and
> instead of offering a different mono effect, they just REMOVED one half
> of the effect which I found really annoying! I love the stereo ambience
> in the MODERN and AIR effects of the I and II and the III lost that. It
> only sounds the same if you use a mono amp.

Well David, like I said...different folks like different stuff. It's all a
matter of your application.

For me, the reverb is good enough, and ping-pong is interesting, but kind of
useless. But I'm not you.

I use it as a practice vehicle, mostly for electric guitar (occasionally for
acoustic), and fixed blues and R&B chord progressions are actually quite
useful for practicing different approaches to lead. If I need something
more complex than that, I have other toys with which to play.

Most of the time, I'm playing it through headphones, because I find the
entire setup very inconvenient for live situations (which is why I
recommended something with a footpedal instead).

Korg is pretty clear in their marketing materials that this is intended to
be a headphone/practice device. I suspect that they figured the typical
user was more interested in having the extra features (including the bass)
than in having lush ping-pong reverb effects to hear all by themselves
through headphones. If their typical user is someone like me, they were
absolutely correct.
--

Michael Pugh

From: Michael McCollum <eadric@visi...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:19:58 -0400

"No Busking" <<nobusking@yahoo...>> wrote in message
news:<B35DD8C1429A24FF.B12383685CD29DA0.607BF94F1F147DDE@lp...>...
> David wrote:
> > If you can find the last (not current) version of the Korg Pandora -
> > model II - they are neat little fully programmable units which you can
> > slip in a pocket, and even run off batteries instead of a wallwart, and
> > use headphones with for practice.
>
> I actually find the Pandora III much more useful than the II...I suppose
> it's just that horses/courses thing. Not all the bass patterns are single
> chord, BTW.
>
> The Zoom would probably be more useful in a jam situation than either of
> them, though. I personally prefer the ability to change settings with
> footpedals when playing with others...wandering throught the Pandora menus
> is a bit cryptic, and the effect parameters aren't as tweakable as the
Zoom.
>
> Actually, they probably are as tweakable, but you'd have to go through
the
> manual and memorize stuff like what "phaser 1" means vs. "phaser 2".

I had pretty good results from a DOD "Acoustek4" multi EFX box before I got
rid of it and upgraded to a D model UltraSound. A great selection of EFX,
not as noisy as I found the Zoom to be, and with programmable banks
accessible thru footpedals. Never got the optional expression pedal, but
should have I guess. I don't use many EFX and the ones I do use are taken
care of pretty well by the amp.
On the other hand, I found a bunch of EFX built it to the Korg D8 digital
recording system I've been goofing on lately. It's taking me a while to sort
this critter out, but it's a heck of a lot of fun so far.

Mike

From: RPM <rmhm@home...>
Subject: Re: multi-effects?
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:09:34 GMT
Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster

Hi Steve; I just got a Korg ToneWorks AX100G. This is a great tool. I was
looking for just a volume pedal, like Ernie Ball for $90, but came across
the AX100G which has an expression pedal that can do volume, wah, filter
(this is really cool), and other effects via the pedal. It also does amp
sims, cabinet sims, various modulation effects, has a cool slow attack
setting, a phrase trainer that does 8 seconds of recording and looping, and
has the ability to record from a CD and slow it down without changing the
pitch for learning fast leads and stuff. Quite a bit of power for $170 with
included power supply from MF. I initially got an AX1G, but found it to be
a bit noisy and not very user friendly. For $70 more, the AX100G is a
bargain. Hope this helps! Rick

Which accoustic guitar effects pedal ? [3]
From: Charlie <no@email...>
Subject: Which accoustic guitar effects pedal ?
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 00:02:22 +1000
Organization: Telstra BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.com)

Can anyone recommend a good, hopefully not too expensive, acoustic guitar
effects pedal (or multi- pedal)?

From: Johnny Wilde <wildeone47@hotmail...>
Subject: Re: Which accoustic guitar effects pedal ?
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 14:41:14 GMT

Hi Charlie:

I'm using a DOD AcousTec and it seems fine to me. I'm lazy however and
although there's a lot of parameters you can fiddle around with, I found one
pre-set that's not too annoying (I think it's number 31) and I just leave it
there.

Hope this helps
"Charlie" <<no@email...>> wrote in message
news:Aokt7.6854$<812.12596@newsfeeds...>...
> Can anyone recommend a good, hopefully not too expensive, acoustic guitar
> effects pedal (or multi- pedal)?
>
>
>

From: MKarlo <mkarlo@aol...>
Subject: Re: Which accoustic guitar effects pedal ?
Date: 30 Sep 2001 02:23:05 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>Can anyone recommend a good, hopefully not too expensive, acoustic guitar
>effects pedal (or multi- pedal)?
>

Not unless you're just noodling. I tried the pedal route for semi-pro
applications, and nothing impressed me at all. Zoom, Boss, DOD, onandonandon.
All cheesy. The only pedal that was impressive was a TC Electronics Chorus,
but that's all it had. Multi-effects pedals were the absolute worse.

So I went rack mount Lexicon. For $200, and considering what it does, I am
content.

MK

Another angle on travel guitars
From: GHoff34226 <ghoff34226@aol...>
Subject: Re: Another angle on travel guitars
Date: 13 Oct 2001 07:26:13 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

The TC Electronic Chorus rocks. I traded three Boss pedals plus $100 for mine,
and it is completely worth it. Best sounding chorus, period. I have used it
many times in studios with rack mount multi effects units costing several
thousand dollars more, and the TC sounded better. It is an analog unit, but it
has a signal-to-noise ratio that is better than your CD player. The only
problem is it can't really handle to much abuse. Kick it around to much, and
it will not work.

By the way, I saw Jill Sobule on Craig Killbourns show the other night. I saw
the ads and got really excited, thinking it was a new album, but the show was a
repeat. Bummer. Oh well, maybe someday I'll get to see her up here in
Minneapolis. "Trains" is one of the coolest songs ever, but that's just me.

Gabriel Hoffman
www.hoffmanguitars.com

pandora box [2]
From: David Kilpatrick <david@maxwellplace...>
Subject: Re: pandora box
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:00:10 +0100
Organization: Icon Publications Ltd

gelillo wrote:
> =

> who has the pandora px3 of korg???
> =

> How is it??
> =

> I'm thinking to buy it but I don=B4t know if it's good. I have now a ZO=
OM
> GFX-707
> =

Some people like it but I found the sound inferior to the Pandora PX-2
and the small (AAA) batteries do not last long. The stereo echoes have
been disabled on the px-3 they do not work properly in stereo - they
used the processor power for another function. I prefer the PX2 for
sound quality.

David

From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: pandora box
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 06:01:36 -0400

gelillo wrote:

> who has the pandora px3 of korg???
>
> How is it??

It depends what you want to use it for.

I have a PX-3 that I use as a practice amp for electric guitar, and like it
a lot for that application. The rhythm section and phrase sampler are
invaluable for learning new material. I would never consider using it for a
live sound application.

David K finds the PX2 really useful for live sound, but finds the changes
they've made to the PX-3 make it LESS suitable for those situations.
--
Michael Pugh

Slighty OT: ABY boxes [2]
From: HL <sweefmy@singnet...>
Subject: Slighty OT: ABY boxes
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:44:54 +0800
Organization: Singapore Telecommunications Ltd

Hi! I'm looking for an ABY box, but don't wish to spend too much. Max US$50. I've
previously used a Morley which I really liked, but I can't find one for sale now. I
am able to buy a Proel for about US$25. Looking for a Whirlwind too. Any opinions?

It will be used for electric and acoustic guitars.

Thanks!
John

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Slighty OT: ABY boxes
Date: 19 Oct 2001 13:49:24 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

<<Hi! I'm looking for an ABY box, but don't wish to spend too much. Max US$50.
I've
previously used a Morley which I really liked, but I can't find one for sale
now. I
am able to buy a Proel for about US$25. Looking for a Whirlwind too. Any
opinions?

It will be used for electric and acoustic guitars.

Thanks!
John>>
I have three A/B/Y boxes: a Morley, a Whirlwind, and a Rolls.

The Whirlwind is the best, hands down. NO alteration of sound. The other two
both impart slight changes to the tone.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

QUEST: REVERB UNITS [7]
From: The Jazzman <ruud.pennings@worldmail...>
Subject: QUEST: REVERB UNITS
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:09:25 +0200
Organization: Ticsali b.v.

Hai there,

I'm intending to buy a reverb-unit for my setup. I use a Yamaha APX 10 nylon
acoustic electric guitar wich I run through a Roland JC 77. I also use a
Westone Session two ES-175 copy. In other words I play jazz. I like to know
if some of you can tell me what to buy. I think about buying a Lexicon MPX
100 or some Alesis xxxxverb. Any suggestions?
T.I.A

Ruud Pennings,
Zoetermeer
Holland

From: Stephen Boyke <sdelsolray@home...>
Subject: Re: QUEST: REVERB UNITS
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:18:13 GMT
Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster

in article 9qs42e$qut$<1@nereid...>, The Jazzman at
<ruud.pennings@worldmail...> wrote on 10/20/01 8:09 AM:

> I'm intending to buy a reverb-unit for my setup. I use a Yamaha APX 10 nylon
> acoustic electric guitar wich I run through a Roland JC 77. I also use a
> Westone Session two ES-175 copy. In other words I play jazz. I like to know
> if some of you can tell me what to buy. I think about buying a Lexicon MPX
> 100 or some Alesis xxxxverb. Any suggestions?
> T.I.A

    I use the Lexicon MPX 100 for acoustic fingerstyle.  Numerous reverb
settings and adjustments, along with many other effects, most of which I
don't use, but the delay, chorus and flange are usable for me.
--
Stephen T. Boyke

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: QUEST: REVERB UNITS
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 12:39:56 -0400

You really can't beat the bang for the buck value of an Alesis Nanoverb.
They can be had for less than $100 but sound great. Lexicon is a step up in
both quality and price. Check out the MPX-100. If you play electric as well,
the MP-2 (i think that's the name) is one awesome box. Of course, it ain't
cheap.....

peace (and good luck),

jb

"The Jazzman" <<ruud.pennings@worldmail...>> wrote in message
news:9qs42e$qut$<1@nereid...>...
> Hai there,
>
> I'm intending to buy a reverb-unit for my setup. I use a Yamaha APX 10
nylon
> acoustic electric guitar wich I run through a Roland JC 77. I also use a
> Westone Session two ES-175 copy. In other words I play jazz. I like to
know
> if some of you can tell me what to buy. I think about buying a Lexicon MPX
> 100 or some Alesis xxxxverb. Any suggestions?
> T.I.A
>
> Ruud Pennings,
> Zoetermeer
> Holland
>
>

From: Dan Kelchak <igcmichigan@chartermi...>
Subject: Re: QUEST: REVERB UNITS
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:02:46 -0400
Organization: Interlochen Guitar Company

Rund,

   I have for many years used a Roland SE-50.  The beauty of this 1/2 rack unit
is that it is very quiet and you can run your guitar directly into it and then
your amp. Alot of reverbs are a bit too noisy to do that and are recommended
for effect loops or mixing board sends and returns. If you like it can be use
in an effects loop too. The SE-50 has every effect that you will ever need and
it can do multiple effect at one time. It is very easy to adjust the
parameters and you can easily name and save anything you create. They do not
make this multi-effects unit anymore so you have to find one used. I bought
two of them, on eBay, for under $150.00. I believe it retailed for $650.00
when it was available new. Good luck! Dan

Dan Kelchak
Interlochen Guitar Co.

The Jazzman wrote:

> Hai there,
>
> I'm intending to buy a reverb-unit for my setup. I use a Yamaha APX 10 nylon
> acoustic electric guitar wich I run through a Roland JC 77. I also use a
> Westone Session two ES-175 copy. In other words I play jazz. I like to know
> if some of you can tell me what to buy. I think about buying a Lexicon MPX
> 100 or some Alesis xxxxverb. Any suggestions?
> T.I.A
>
> Ruud Pennings,
> Zoetermeer
> Holland

From: John Dahlstedt <jdahlste@uiuc...>
Subject: Re: QUEST: REVERB UNITS
Date: 21 Oct 2001 09:03:49 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

I agree that the Lexicon is a step up over the Alesis Nanoverb. I prefer the
Boss REV-3 to the Alesis for guitar. Little Lanilei makes a stomp box type
spring reverb that I am now using with my archtop. It doesn't offer the
versatility of the others, but delivers exactly the reverb I want for jazz.

From: Larry <larryv@ma...>
Subject: Re: QUEST: REVERB UNITS
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:17:12 -0400

I have to disagree on the Lexicon MPX-100. I had one of these for 1 1/2 years.
The interface is really annoying in my opinion. The lack of an LCD readout
really makes it tedious to use. The different presets are selected using a knob,
and they're written with a really small font. Anytime I wanted to change a
setting, I had to pull out my glasses, look closely to make sure I was selecting
the right bank, then remember which number within that bank was the setting I
wanted. Put this into a dim light situation, and it's really a pain in the butt.
Personally, I hated the thing. In addition, I found the reverbs and delays to be
very tanky and unnatural sounding. The chip used in the lower end Lexicons is
not the same chip they use in their higher end processors. I ended up getting a
MidiVerb 4 which has a much nicer interface and sounds better to me than the
Lexicon. However, I wouldn't recommend the MV4 for live performance, mainly due
to the fact that you can only change the mix on a program by program basis, and
you have to go into the edit mode to do so. I think the reverbs in the Alesis
sound nuch more natrual to my ear than the Lexicon. I've also heard good things
about the Boss REV-3.

John Dahlstedt wrote:

> I agree that the Lexicon is a step up over the Alesis Nanoverb. I prefer the
> Boss REV-3 to the Alesis for guitar. Little Lanilei makes a stomp box type
> spring reverb that I am now using with my archtop. It doesn't offer the
> versatility of the others, but delivers exactly the reverb I want for jazz.

From: <minette@minn...>
Subject: Re: QUEST: REVERB UNITS
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:12:02 GMT
Organization: Cleardata Communications

I use a Peavey Valveverb -- a now discontinued tube rack reverb unit
which works quite well. About the closest to (but not quite there) an
old Fender reverb unit of any of the outboard products. I believe you
can still find them in the used market for $150 or so -- often with a
two space rack included. BTW, it has tremolo too in case you are fond
of surf jazz. Cowabunga!!

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:09:25 +0200, "The Jazzman"
<<ruud.pennings@worldmail...>> wrote:

>Hai there,
>
>I'm intending to buy a reverb-unit for my setup. I use a Yamaha APX 10 nylon
>acoustic electric guitar wich I run through a Roland JC 77. I also use a
>Westone Session two ES-175 copy. In other words I play jazz. I like to know
>if some of you can tell me what to buy. I think about buying a Lexicon MPX
>100 or some Alesis xxxxverb. Any suggestions?
>T.I.A
>
>Ruud Pennings,
>Zoetermeer
>Holland
>
>

Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job.

Just bought a Lexicon MPX-100
From: Gregory Michael <greeeg@juno...>
Subject: Just bought a Lexicon MPX-100
Date: 21 Oct 2001 07:20:29 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

I just got one of these and am amazed at all the effects I've gotten
myself into. Its almost like too much is a bad thing. But not
really. I was wondering if any other owners could pass along their
favorite effects or which ones they've modified to get a certain
effect etc. I'll probably be mainly using the chorus, the reverb, and
the delay, but I'd like to learn more about other good acoustic
effects as well.

Thanks

Gregory Michael

Sabine Feedback Buster? [8]
From: Hojo2x <hojo2x@aol...>
Subject: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: 27 Oct 2001 20:11:16 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

A refreshing little trend I'm seeing amongst bluegrass musicians lately is the
use of one good microphone onstage - the players gather around it, completely
unplugged, and walk in and out and control their dynamics that way.

There's nothing the least bit new about this, of course, as that's how it used
to be done in the old days before piezo pickups and close-miking. But it's
come back in style.

The other day I was on the phone with Al Koenig, a fine Anchorage musician who
used to be fairly active on this newsgroup until I sold him his first mandolin
and sent him down the path of mando-sin and degradation. Al went hogwild on
mandolin, and has been focusing on that for the past few years.

He told me that he uses a very good area mike with one of those recording
studio isolation cradles that suspend it and protect it from transmitting
shock, and then runs it through the Sabine Feedback Buster, which is this
digital device that automatically corrects and eliminates feedback.

It's not cheap, but evidently it does what it's supposed to do.

Do any of you have any experience with this device? I'm interested in anything
that can give me better sound, (not to mention help simplify my life and
shorten my setup time at gigs.....)

I know First Quality sells this combination, and I also know that Tony there
really prides himself in staying on top of the market by presenting
cutting-edge stuff. I can pick up the phone and talk to him about it, and will
once I accumulate the funds (I'm buying a new car this week, so that comes
first. It'll be a while before I can afford to go this route.)

In the meantime, I'd like to hear from anyone else who's used one.

Thanks.

Wade Hampton Miller

From: donh <bounce.spam@driveway...>
Subject: Re: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:33:44 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: WebUseNet Corp. - "ReInventing The UseNet"

On 27 Oct 2001 20:11:16 GMT, Hojo2x wrote:
<snip><sabine feedback buster?><snip>

Wade,
I can't say I have used one of these things live, because it never got
that far.
A rep sent me one to play with, tho.
these things 'work' by phase-shifitng the audio to bust the feedback
loop.
If this was a guitar stomp pedal, I'd name it "Capricious Chorus"
We sent it back.
I would strongly suggest taking the money you might have spent on this
thing and investing it in a smoother signal chain (better speakers, more
solid amp or mixer, etc) so feedback has less chance to form in the first
place.

donh at audiosys dot com

From: George Gleason <g.p.gleason@worldnet...>
Subject: Re: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:16:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T Worldnet

"donh" <<bounce.spam@driveway...>> wrote in message
news:<qbaungnhqvbflfqbgpbz.glvt480.pminews@news...>...
> On 27 Oct 2001 20:11:16 GMT, Hojo2x wrote:
> <snip><sabine feedback buster?><snip>
>
> Wade,
> I can't say I have used one of these things live, because it never got
> that far.
> A rep sent me one to play with, tho.
> these things 'work' by phase-shifitng the audio to bust the feedback
> loop.
> If this was a guitar stomp pedal, I'd name it "Capricious Chorus"
> We sent it back.
> I would strongly suggest taking the money you might have spent on this
> thing and investing it in a smoother signal chain (better speakers, more
> solid amp or mixer, etc) so feedback has less chance to form in the first
> place.
>
>
That is not the sabine unit you speak of
the sabine is basically a automatic 10 band parametric EQ Great for some
applications Horrible for othere
it is a tool and like all tools can be a livesaver or a deadly mistake
waiting to happen the end result comes from knowing when and where it shoud
be use and knowing when and where NOT to use it
I own one it never sees duty on a musical stage but for spoken word and lav
mics as well as podiums it works very well
I t need to be used as part of solid engineering not as a replacment for
solid engineering
George

From: David D. Berkowitz <ddb@berkowitzguitars...>
Subject: Re: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:15:26 GMT

Wade, I had the opportunity to play with the Shure dfr11, which is their
"Digital Feedback Reducer." I used it in a direct feed application and not
with a microphone. This thing is amazing. I had a baritone with a Matrix
Natural I, standing directly in front of the studio monitors, with 3/4 input
gain and no feedback with almost nothing taken out. The change was
imperceptible.

The dfr11 works by building microfilters on each errant frequency and taking
out a tiny bit on either side, rather than like a 30 band eq which takes out
a few hundred. It can build up to ten or eleven filters, and you can plug
it into a laptop and set "scenes" for each instrument you're going to use.
It also cuts frequencies if they suddenly squawk.

Whether this is the right thing for what you're using I can't tell you, but
if I was still gigging I would have one in my rack.

--

    David D. Berkowitz
    Berkowitz Guitars
    301 12th St, SE
    Unit 1
    Washington, DC 20002
    (202) 543-1806
    ddb@berkowitzguitars.com
    http://www.berkowitzguitars.com

From: Gary Hall <ahall@tusco...>
Subject: Re: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: 28 Oct 2001 04:32:37 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

<hojo2x@aol...> (Hojo2x) wrote in message news:<<20011027161116.17379.00000228@mb-cq...>>...
> A refreshing little trend I'm seeing amongst bluegrass musicians lately is the
> use of one good microphone onstage - the players gather around it, completely
> unplugged, and walk in and out and control their dynamics that way.
>
> There's nothing the least bit new about this, of course, as that's how it used
> to be done in the old days before piezo pickups and close-miking. But it's
> come back in style.
>
> The other day I was on the phone with Al Koenig, a fine Anchorage musician who
> used to be fairly active on this newsgroup until I sold him his first mandolin
> and sent him down the path of mando-sin and degradation. Al went hogwild on
> mandolin, and has been focusing on that for the past few years.
>
> He told me that he uses a very good area mike with one of those recording
> studio isolation cradles that suspend it and protect it from transmitting
> shock, and then runs it through the Sabine Feedback Buster, which is this
> digital device that automatically corrects and eliminates feedback.
>
> It's not cheap, but evidently it does what it's supposed to do.
>
> Do any of you have any experience with this device? I'm interested in anything
> that can give me better sound, (not to mention help simplify my life and
> shorten my setup time at gigs.....)
>
> I know First Quality sells this combination, and I also know that Tony there
> really prides himself in staying on top of the market by presenting
> cutting-edge stuff. I can pick up the phone and talk to him about it, and will
> once I accumulate the funds (I'm buying a new car this week, so that comes
> first. It'll be a while before I can afford to go this route.)
>
> In the meantime, I'd like to hear from anyone else who's used one.

Wade,

You may be able to simplify your setup by going in the other direction
and making your pickups sound more like a mic. I've been fooling
around with a Yamaha AG Stomp (preamp, mic simulator, effects box,
feedback eliminator, tempermental tuner) for about a week now. It
does wonders for the Fishman Matrix in my Larrivee - thru a PA or
recorded to DAT. I should mention, though, that for best results you
must create your own patches (which includes EQ settings and mix of
direct signal & mic simulation) to suit the particular setup you are
using and your personal taste in tone.

I've been experimenting with using the AG Stomp with a variety of
guitar/pickup combinations and may report on the results after some
more tinkering. Unfortunately, I can't comment on how it works with
your favorite pickups - the Baggs ribbon transducer and the Baggs
iBEAM. I don't currently have a guitar with a ribbon transducer in
it, and my iBEAMed guitar is in the shop having a Baggs Hex pickup
installed. The iBEAM will only be reinstalled (for a two source
setup) if there's room for it on the soundhole side of where the Hex
saddle leads come down thru the bridgeplate.

In any event, you might want to keep your "ear to the ground" for
reports coming in on the AG stomp. It's probable that Acoustic Guitar
Mag will review it, and I wouldn't be surprised if the folks at Baggs
aren't running some tests of their own.

Now it's time to go employ the least expensive and most enjoyable
"gimmick" I've found for improving my guitar sound - pratice.

Gary (spending too much time looking for an "edge") Hall

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: 29 Oct 2001 03:18:04 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>I've had some luck with the Sabine Solo feedback device, just plug a mike or
>guitar into it. Is it perfect? No.
>Gerry Rosser

I use a Sabine Feedback Exterminator in our monitor signal chain (last before
the power amps). Works very well. Not quite as good as a talented tech paying
attention ONLY to the monitor mix with their hands on a good parametric or two
31-bands, but close.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 07:52:34 -0500

I own one and use it depending upon the environment. It works well with
microphones, less so with pickups. There are several models - the pricier
ones have more levels of feedback control through a greater number of
filters. They also slice a smaller section out of the tonal spectrum when
they're killing feedback. It's not perfect, but it is a great tool. Since
I'm going to experiment with playing through a microphone more in upcoming
weeks, it'll probably see more action.

peace,

jb

"Hojo2x" <<hojo2x@aol...>> wrote in message
news:<20011027161116.17379.00000228@mb-cq...>...
> A refreshing little trend I'm seeing amongst bluegrass musicians lately is
the
> use of one good microphone onstage - the players gather around it,
completely
> unplugged, and walk in and out and control their dynamics that way.
>
> There's nothing the least bit new about this, of course, as that's how it
used
> to be done in the old days before piezo pickups and close-miking. But
it's
> come back in style.
>
> The other day I was on the phone with Al Koenig, a fine Anchorage musician
who
> used to be fairly active on this newsgroup until I sold him his first
mandolin
> and sent him down the path of mando-sin and degradation. Al went hogwild
on
> mandolin, and has been focusing on that for the past few years.
>
> He told me that he uses a very good area mike with one of those recording
> studio isolation cradles that suspend it and protect it from transmitting
> shock, and then runs it through the Sabine Feedback Buster, which is this
> digital device that automatically corrects and eliminates feedback.
>
> It's not cheap, but evidently it does what it's supposed to do.
>
> Do any of you have any experience with this device? I'm interested in
anything
> that can give me better sound, (not to mention help simplify my life and
> shorten my setup time at gigs.....)
>
> I know First Quality sells this combination, and I also know that Tony
there
> really prides himself in staying on top of the market by presenting
> cutting-edge stuff. I can pick up the phone and talk to him about it, and
will
> once I accumulate the funds (I'm buying a new car this week, so that comes
> first. It'll be a while before I can afford to go this route.)
>
> In the meantime, I'd like to hear from anyone else who's used one.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Wade Hampton Miller

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@astro...>
Subject: Re: Sabine Feedback Buster?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:49:11 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

Gary Hall wrote:
>
> I've been experimenting with using the AG Stomp with a variety of
> guitar/pickup combinations and may report on the results after some
> more tinkering.

I haven't yet heard an AG Stomp, but offer the following observations
anyway FWIW....

There are two AG Stomp reviews presently at Harmony Central, both of
them quite favorable.

I own a DG Stomp (the earlier, electric guitar version) and am very
impressed with it. Noted electric players including Alan Holdsworth
and Phil Keaggy use the DG series modelers; these guys are known for
tone. Electric is a very different beast from acoustic in terms of
amplification needs. But still, this makes me seriously consider anything
Yamaha might offer.

Finally, this is an idea whose time has come. A year or two ago the
B-Band folks reported on their experiments with DSP correction of
pickup tones in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society; Yamaha
isn't the only company working in this direction (I have no idea how
much further B-Band has taken the idea). One of the problems that
I have with all current pickups is the unnatural abruptness of the
signal's attack, an inevitable consequence of using a single, localized
pickup. You can't "fix" this with equalization; it's a time-domain
problem. DSP is a natural way to address it.

So I'm very curious about the AG Stomp. Gary, please let us know
your thoughts as you continue to experiment.

Peace,
Tom Loredo

Has anyone used a Boss AD3? [3]
From: Miller <gbdj@tpgi...>
Subject: Has anyone used a Boss AD3?
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:53:09 +1100
Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct

I have been searching the internet for a chorus pedal for my acoustic
guitar. Music stores in my area carry little stock and I am finding it
difficult to make a decision.
I had narrowed it down to either a Danelectro Cool Cat or a Marshall
Supervibe, but if I spend a bit more I could get a Boss AD3, which has
Reverb, Anti Feedback and an EQ as well as the chorus.
If anyone has an opinion I would appreciate it.

Regards,
Greg.

From: Gary Hall <ahall@tusco...>
Subject: Re: Has anyone used a Boss AD3?
Date: 28 Oct 2001 09:25:40 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

"Miller" <<gbdj@tpgi...>> wrote in message news:<<3bdb3c08@dnews...>>...
> I have been searching the internet for a chorus pedal for my acoustic
> guitar. Music stores in my area carry little stock and I am finding it
> difficult to make a decision.
> I had narrowed it down to either a Danelectro Cool Cat or a Marshall
> Supervibe, but if I spend a bit more I could get a Boss AD3, which has
> Reverb, Anti Feedback and an EQ as well as the chorus.
> If anyone has an opinion I would appreciate it.

Greg,

If you haven't checked it already, there are three user
reviews/opinions on Harmony Central. Here's the link:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Boss/AD_3-01.html

I've had a Boss AD-5 for years and have found it to be a very useful
piece of equipment - especially when running sound for other folks.
However, I don't like the effects as much as I like the effects from
my old Korg G2.

If you have the money to spend, you might want to check out the new
Yamaha AG Stomp. I has the automatic anti-feedback, excellent
effects, superb EQ, a (tempermental) tuner and some very impressive
mic simulations. However, it's a much more complex piece of equipment
than the AD-3. The AD-3 would be much easier to use and possibly all
that's needed for your intended purpose.

Gary Hall

From: Troubleman <Troubleman@rocketmail...>
Subject: Re: Has anyone used a Boss AD3?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 07:46:00 -0500

I have one. It's chorus and reverb algorhythms are suited well for acoustic
guitar. It's best feature is it's tonal compensation switch for running an
acoustic guitar through an electric guitar amp. It stays in my gigbag for
that reason....

jb

"Miller" <<gbdj@tpgi...>> wrote in message
news:<3bdb3c08@dnews...>...
> I have been searching the internet for a chorus pedal for my acoustic
> guitar. Music stores in my area carry little stock and I am finding it
> difficult to make a decision.
> I had narrowed it down to either a Danelectro Cool Cat or a Marshall
> Supervibe, but if I spend a bit more I could get a Boss AD3, which has
> Reverb, Anti Feedback and an EQ as well as the chorus.
> If anyone has an opinion I would appreciate it.
>
> Regards,
> Greg.
>
>

AMP & Pedal Question.. [3]
From: goku <lttung7@hotmail...>
Subject: AMP & Pedal Question..
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:36:00 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I don't know anything about amps, but I recently saw a Howie Day show, and I
really loved it. He uses pedals and a mixer to record himself on stage
(short riffs, strumming patters, pounding on the guitar to simulate drums,
singing in harmony with himself, and other effect) and looping these
recordings so he has different layers in his song. I haven't invest any
time yet so far to research on Amps, pedals and mixers. since I don't have
an elec/acoustic. Do you guys know what he could be using?

what's the main difference btw elec. guitar amps and acoustic guitar amps?
you can still plug an elec/acoustic (or a sound hole pickup) to an elec.
guitar amp right? would it sound bad? recommendations?

Thanks! (love this news group)
:)
LT

From: T-Bone <dorgan@fltg...>
Subject: Re: AMP & Pedal Question..
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 09:56:48 -0500
Organization: what, me worry?

goku wrote:
>
> I don't know anything about amps, but I recently saw a Howie Day show, and I
> really loved it. He uses pedals and a mixer to record himself on stage
> (short riffs, strumming patters, pounding on the guitar to simulate drums,
> singing in harmony with himself, and other effect) and looping these
> recordings so he has different layers in his song. I haven't invest any
> time yet so far to research on Amps, pedals and mixers. since I don't have
> an elec/acoustic. Do you guys know what he could be using?
>
> what's the main difference btw elec. guitar amps and acoustic guitar amps?
> you can still plug an elec/acoustic (or a sound hole pickup) to an elec.
> guitar amp right? would it sound bad? recommendations?
>
> Thanks! (love this news group)
> :)
> LT

Well, I'm not sure exactly which equipment he's using but from your
description he's using some type of looper.
The Lexicon JamMan is one that gets rave reviews, but it's out of
production. There are others available.
I had a brief fling with this technology and still fool around with a
Boomerang. It is a good unit to fool around on, but I never was happy
enough with the sound quality to use it live at a gig.

Run a google search on looping and you'll get a wealth of information.
Bob Dorgan

From: <thaxter@erols...>
Subject: Re: AMP & Pedal Question..
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:31:52 -0500

goku wrote:
>
> I don't know anything about amps, but I recently saw a Howie Day show, and I
> really loved it. He uses pedals and a mixer to record himself on stage
> (short riffs, strumming patters, pounding on the guitar to simulate drums,
> singing in harmony with himself, and other effect) and looping these
> recordings so he has different layers in his song. I haven't invest any
> time yet so far to research on Amps, pedals and mixers. since I don't have
> an elec/acoustic. Do you guys know what he could be using?
>
> what's the main difference btw elec. guitar amps and acoustic guitar amps?
> you can still plug an elec/acoustic (or a sound hole pickup) to an elec.
> guitar amp right? would it sound bad? recommendations?
>
> Thanks! (love this news group)
> :)
> LT

It's hard to get an acoustic to sound even halfway decent through an
electric guitar amp, but one can get a passable sound from a really
clean amp--like a Fender Princeton Chorus, or a jazz amp.

On the subject of recording and looping. The JamMan is one such tool,
as Bob Dorgan pointed out. I've got two pedals--a Line6 Delay Modeler
which can record a 28 second loop and then dub additional sounds over
it; and a Boss RC-20 Loop Station. It's got five minutes of loops one
can store up to ten loops. They're quite an addictive tool.

Dick Thaxter

Acoustic Simulators? [3]
From: <pmarxhausen@nospam...>
Subject: Acoustic Simulators?
Date: 21 Nov 2001 20:30:10 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln

OK, I've got a fine Alvarez acoustic, equipped with a Trinity
pickup system (internal mike and disc elements) that I heartily
endorse for amping up and recording, but I have a gig where
using my solidbody is handy, and I'm curious how passable
these "acoustic simulator" effects found in some pedals and
multieffects units are. I'd hardly expect them to equal
an acoustic but are they useful enough to make it a feature
on my "want list" as I consider getting a modeling preamp?
(I'm looking at the Johnson J-station right now, which features
a couple of "acoustic" patches.)

--

paul marxhausen ```` ``````` ````````````` ```````````` ```````````` `````````` 

  `` ` `  ` ` ` university of nebraska - lincoln `  ` ` `` ` `  `` ` ` ` ` ` ` `
 `     `    `  `   `     `   `  `    `   `  `   `    `   `  grace `   `    `  ` 
    `         `       `      `        `        `      `        `   happens `    
     <<<<<<< Email: pmarxhausen "at" unl "dot" edu >>>>>>>
From: Michael James Richard Brown <rockon02@senet...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic Simulators?
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:30:05 +0800

>
> <pmarxhausen@nospam...> wrote:
>
> > OK, I've got a fine Alvarez acoustic, equipped with a Trinity
> > pickup system (internal mike and disc elements) that I heartily
> > endorse for amping up and recording, but I have a gig where
> > using my solidbody is handy, and I'm curious how passable
> > these "acoustic simulator" effects found in some pedals and
> > multieffects units are. I'd hardly expect them to equal
> > an acoustic but are they useful enough to make it a feature
> > on my "want list" as I consider getting a modeling preamp?
> > (I'm looking at the Johnson J-station right now, which features
> > a couple of "acoustic" patches.)
> >
> > paul marxhausen ```` ``````` ````````````` ```````````` ````````````
``````````
> > `` ` ` ` ` ` university of nebraska - lincoln ` ` ` `` ` ` `` ` ` `
` ` ` `

Paul. I have a Digitech GNX1 that has
an acoustic simulator channel. It is a
pleasing enough sound, but
acoustic it ain't.
Michael B

From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: Acoustic Simulators?
Date: 26 Nov 2001 15:56:10 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

<<> > OK, I've got a fine Alvarez acoustic, equipped with a Trinity
> > pickup system (internal mike and disc elements) that I heartily
> > endorse for amping up and recording, but I have a gig where
> > using my solidbody is handy, and I'm curious how passable
> > these "acoustic simulator" effects found in some pedals and
> > multieffects units are. I'd hardly expect them to equal
> > an acoustic but are they useful enough to make it a feature
> > on my "want list" as I consider getting a modeling preamp?
> > (I'm looking at the Johnson J-station right now, which features
> > a couple of "acoustic" patches.)
> >
> > paul marxhausen `>>>

They're OK if you only need it two or three times a night, and don't want to
haul another guitar to the gig. I use my Parker Fly Deluxe SIngle 2 that way;
the acoustic tone is certainly no acoustic guitar, but is good enough for the
two or three tunes where I need a 'just acoustic' tone.

Steve (SEFSTRAT)
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html

My Lexicon Jam Man is Coming! [4]
From: Tom Loredo <loredo@astro...>
Subject: Re: My Lexicon Jam Man is Coming!
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:31:14 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

Hi Paul-

Paul Wieland wrote:
>
> I went and did a Google search and read how great Tom Loredo sounds with his
> Jam Man

Some people are too easily impressed!!! Trust me on this!

> Can anyone offer me some
> advice on using this new (to me)contraption?
>
> I happened to read about Phil Keaggy's set-up in a recent AG mag and saw he
> uses a volume pedal, a Marshall compression pedal, a Peavey effects box,
> another looper system (can't remember what it's called) etc. etc.

Phil also has the Line 6 delay modeller and the Oberheim Echoplex. But
he still relies mostly on the JamMan. I'll offer two pieces of advice.

First, if you do not regularly play in a band with a good rhythm
section, or with a metronome, your sense of rhythm may not be
too rhythmic! That was certainly true for me, and I find it is
true of many acoustic performers who mostly do the solo guitar
or voice+guitar thing. You need pretty good rhythm to get loops
to work well. Do not be dismayed if your first experiments with
the JamMan are a bit frustrating! Mine were. 8-) But I was
surprised at how quickly my sense of rhythm improved once I
started practicing with a tool that forced me to be more careful
about it. On the plus side, regular work with the JamMan will
improve your rhythm, which is just a good thing in general. Even
if you never take it out of the house, it will help you play
better both by yourself and with others.

Second, the JamMan has two jacks into which you can plug two
footswitch modules giving you four switches to control it. However,
even if you have both modules, you are still leaving significant
functionality of the JamMan untapped. It has several functions
that can be accessed only via MIDI. To use them well, you should
get a programmable MIDI pedal (not one that just sends out
a single preset program change message for each switch), one
that can send multiple messages from a single press of a footswitch.
This way you can do things like program a switch to end a sample
and immediately play it back in reverse, etc.. The pedal that
I use is the same one Phil uses, the RFX MidiWizard 1288 (not
the less functional MidiBuddy):

  http://www.rolls.com/new/mp1288.html
Cost is around $150 or so. If you decide to go this route and would
like advice on how to program it, drop me a line. I programmed
Phil's (though he likely has adapted the programs for his own use)
so I can give you some idea of what his setup is like.

Most of all, just have fun with it. It's a blast!

Peace,
Tom Loredo

From: Paul Wieland <paulwieland@prodigy...>
Subject: Re: My Lexicon Jam Man is Coming!
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:56:57 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com

Hi Tom,

You may have opened a can of worms offering to give me advice. I sincerely
appreciate it, but I'm also about as ignorant as they come with this kind of
gear, so you may live to regret it :>)!!

"Tom Loredo" <<loredo@astro...>> wrote 8-) But I was
> surprised at how quickly my sense of rhythm improved once I
> started practicing with a tool that forced me to be more careful
> about it. On the plus side, regular work with the JamMan will
> improve your rhythm, which is just a good thing in general. Even
> if you never take it out of the house, it will help you play
> better both by yourself and with others.

In addition to rhythm skils, I imagine it will also help improve my improv
skills, won't it?

> Second, the JamMan has two jacks into which you can plug two
> footswitch modules giving you four switches to control it. However,
> even if you have both modules, you are still leaving significant
> functionality of the JamMan untapped. It has several functions
> that can be accessed only via MIDI. To use them well, you should
> get a programmable MIDI pedal (not one that just sends out
> a single preset program change message for each switch), one
> that can send multiple messages from a single press of a footswitch.
> This way you can do things like program a switch to end a sample
> and immediately play it back in reverse, etc.. The pedal that
> I use is the same one Phil uses, the RFX MidiWizard 1288 (not
> the less functional MidiBuddy):

This sounds like just the kind of advice I need to get. Of course,
hopefully I'll be able to understand the advantages better once I actually
get the unit and start playing around with it. How cool that you actually
worked on programming Phil's system!

I really appreciate your help and will keep you posted with my progress and
questions.

Thanks,

Paul

From: Steve and Lisa Cuss <steveandlisa123@earthlinkNOSPAM...>
Subject: Re: My Lexicon Jam Man is Coming!
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:23:26 GMT
Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net

Hi Paul,

I also have a jam man - a gift from a very kind friend and I echo Tom's
thoughts on rhythm....

It took me a while to make quality, tight loops, but it definitely made me a
better player. I haven't plucked up the courage to take it out in public
yet, but I've worked on a couple of pieces. I really should spring for the
midi board as a friend of mine uses one with his Jam man with great results.

As for an improvising tool, it is a wonderful way to practice scales and
improv as well as new licks over and over. Way easier than taping yourself
for 45 minutes or whatever and playing a tape back for accompaniment.

Have fun and best wishes with your new toy...

Steve C

From: Tom Loredo <loredo@astro...>
Subject: Re: My Lexicon Jam Man is Coming!
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 13:26:20 -0500
Organization: Cornell University

Hi Paul-

Paul Wieland wrote:
>
> In addition to rhythm skils, I imagine it will also help improve my improv
> skills, won't it?

Certainly. I don't write my own songs, but it seems to me that for
a songwriter it could be a helpful composition tool as well.

> > It has several functions
> > that can be accessed only via MIDI. To use them well, you should
> > get a programmable MIDI pedal....
>
> This sounds like just the kind of advice I need to get. Of course,
> hopefully I'll be able to understand the advantages better once I actually
> get the unit and start playing around with it.

The most frustrating thing about the JamMan out-of-the-box is that
once you have recorded a loop, you cannot stop it and restart it
later in the song (you can do this with samples, but not with loops,
and only loops allow overdubbing). To stop the loop you have to
hit the reset button, which also clears it. But there is a MIDI command
that lets you stop & restart. There are also 3 MIDI commands that
will fade out a loop (short, med, long fades) instead of simply
stopping it. And by hitting the right sequence, you can record
as you fade, so the old loop slowly disappears under whatever you
are playing. Those are just a few of the possibilities---the ones
I use most myself.

Peace,
Tom

Effects for acoustic guitar [4]
From: INGuitar <gfounds@aol...>
Subject: Effects for acoustic guitar
Date: 19 Dec 2001 09:06:11 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/

I am in the market for a multi-effects unit to complement my acoustic.

 I don't need a whole host of effects, just a collection of CLEAN
reverbs and delays and perhaps a few other effects like flange, etc.
and preferably a built in tuner. (I currently play a Langejans walnut
and spruce dreadnought cutaway with Fishman electronics through an old
Roland Jazz Chorus 80 amp.) I realize that my amp could use
upgrading, but what multi-effects unit should I consider? I have read
some less-than-stellar reviews of the Boss devices, particularly with
respect to the sounds of the verbs in these units. Agree? Also, I am
not opposed to a rack unit. Any advice would be appreciated.

From: Jeffrey Cohen <cohenj@umich...>
Subject: Re: Effects for acoustic guitar
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:10:19 -0500
Organization: Bell Sympatico

I just mentioned this in a different thread but...

The Yamaha AG-Stomp is probably your best bet. Sonically, its superb. I
don't think it has a flange affect, but personally I don't think that
would come in very handy for acoustic playing.

If you just need a good DI box with feedback control, EQ chorus and
rebverb, check out the Boss AC-3.

JC

INGuitar wrote:

> I am in the market for a multi-effects unit to complement my acoustic.
> I don't need a whole host of effects, just a collection of CLEAN
> reverbs and delays and perhaps a few other effects like flange, etc.
> and preferably a built in tuner. (I currently play a Langejans walnut
> and spruce dreadnought cutaway with Fishman electronics through an old
> Roland Jazz Chorus 80 amp.) I realize that my amp could use
> upgrading, but what multi-effects unit should I consider? I have read
> some less-than-stellar reviews of the Boss devices, particularly with
> respect to the sounds of the verbs in these units. Agree? Also, I am
> not opposed to a rack unit. Any advice would be appreciated.

From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: Effects for acoustic guitar
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:54:50 -0500

> I am in the market for a multi-effects unit to complement my acoustic.
> I don't need a whole host of effects, just a collection of CLEAN
> reverbs and delays and perhaps a few other effects like flange, etc.
> and preferably a built in tuner.

You don't give a price range, but the Lexicon MPX-100 has the cleanest
sounding reverbs I've heard in a budget device. You'd miss the tuner, but
pick up tremolo, rotary, chorus, flange, and delay in addition to the
'verbs. It's a rackmount unit.

They're about $200.
--
Michael Pugh

From: HL <sweefmy@singnet...>
Subject: Re: Effects for acoustic guitar
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:21:14 +0800
Organization: Singapore Telecommunications Ltd

Hi,

you didn't mention a budget, but TC Electronics makes great effects units.

cheers,
John

"INGuitar" <<gfounds@aol...>> wrote in message
news:<dd5345a9.0112190906.6c9f08fd@posting...>...
> I am in the market for a multi-effects unit to complement my acoustic.
> I don't need a whole host of effects, just a collection of CLEAN
> reverbs and delays and perhaps a few other effects like flange, etc.
> and preferably a built in tuner. (I currently play a Langejans walnut
> and spruce dreadnought cutaway with Fishman electronics through an old
> Roland Jazz Chorus 80 amp.) I realize that my amp could use
> upgrading, but what multi-effects unit should I consider? I have read
> some less-than-stellar reviews of the Boss devices, particularly with
> respect to the sounds of the verbs in these units. Agree? Also, I am
> not opposed to a rack unit. Any advice would be appreciated.

Need a device that might not exist. [5]
From: Jeff Sherman <jsherman@lorainccc...>
Subject: Need a device that might not exist.
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:40:02 GMT

I got this Loop Station for xmas and wanna try using it live/solo. I
think I want a pedal that's like a volume pedal but sorta
programmable. I want to hit a switch once and have it gradually fade
out whatever signal's going through it, ideally over an adjustable
amount of time, say, 5-20 seconds or so depending on the tune.

Here's the issue: Its hard to stop the loop in a way that's not
abrupt; like one guitar just dropped out of the mix instantly. Some
songs work ok but some are tough and require awkward workarounds.

If there's no such animal then I'd use a volume pedal manually the way
Thaxter suggested (pedally?) but I dunno. Working the looper alone is
already a challenge. Ed mentioned an a/b box but its not turning off
the phrase that's difficult; its doing it smoothly.

Does this make sense?

Sherman

From: Dick Thaxter <rtha@loc...>
Subject: Re: Need a device that might not exist.
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:33:13 -0500
Organization: Library of Congress

Jeff Sherman wrote:

> I got this Loop Station for xmas and wanna try using it live/solo. I
> think I want a pedal that's like a volume pedal but sorta
> programmable. I want to hit a switch once and have it gradually fade
> out whatever signal's going through it, ideally over an adjustable
> amount of time, say, 5-20 seconds or so depending on the tune.
>
> Here's the issue: Its hard to stop the loop in a way that's not
> abrupt; like one guitar just dropped out of the mix instantly. Some
> songs work ok but some are tough and require awkward workarounds.
>
> If there's no such animal then I'd use a volume pedal manually the way
> Thaxter suggested (pedally?) but I dunno. Working the looper alone is
> already a challenge. Ed mentioned an a/b box but its not turning off
> the phrase that's difficult; its doing it smoothly.
>
> Does this make sense?
>
> Sherman

Jeff,

I know exactly what you're talking about--the abruptness issue, that is.
There's a couple of songs I do that work well if I do the FADE while I'm
recording the loop. It also helps me to hear when the loop is coming back
to the beginning. Sometimes I get carried away soloing and it helps to
get an auditory cue of when to stop. There are other songs where I just
double the rhythm part and play hard as I hit the stop switch so that the
cutout is less noticeable.

If you do get wired up with two amps, the volume pedal would be all you'd
need to manipulate (pedipulate?) to get the effect you want though, since
you could just fade the loop to off and not touch the Loopstation switch
until you're finished with the song--it would be playing but with zero
volume.

But as far as a device, I don't know. When I turn the power off to my
tube amps, the sound gradually fades out. You could just kick out the
plug. Maybe a "lovely assistant" could turn the knob on the loopstation
while you play?

Dick Thaxter

From: Ed <edncori@qis...>
Subject: Re: Need a device that might not exist.
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:32:31 -0500
Organization: None here...

Comments somewhere in here......

Dick Thaxter wrote:

> Jeff Sherman wrote:
>
> > I got this Loop Station for xmas and wanna try using it live/solo. I
> > think I want a pedal that's like a volume pedal but sorta
> > programmable. I want to hit a switch once and have it gradually fade
> > out whatever signal's going through it, ideally over an adjustable
> > amount of time, say, 5-20 seconds or so depending on the tune.
> >
>

I know how to do this with the pedals I have. Using the a/b switch, I set up
2 signal paths, one for the loop and one for the lead. On the loop signal, if
I set the regenerate (or repeat) at a little less than max, and then hit the
record button (with no input, i.e. current playing signal going through
non-loop path) it'll fade out at a rate determined by the repeat control.

For some songs, I just use a vol. pedal on the output of the looper (or in the
case of the Boomerang, there is a foot controlled volume knob to fade the loop
signal).

For some songs, I go back to the loop, resume playing it, hit stop on the
looper and then fade it out playing it. Like Dick says below.

I've never seen one but I bet someone makes an auto fade pedal.

Ed

> > Here's the issue: Its hard to stop the loop in a way that's not
> > abrupt; like one guitar just dropped out of the mix instantly. Some
> > songs work ok but some are tough and require awkward workarounds.
> >
> > If there's no such animal then I'd use a volume pedal manually the way
> > Thaxter suggested (pedally?) but I dunno. Working the looper alone is
> > already a challenge. Ed mentioned an a/b box but its not turning off
> > the phrase that's difficult; its doing it smoothly.
> >
> > Does this make sense?
> >
> > Sherman
>
> Jeff,
>
> I know exactly what you're talking about--the abruptness issue, that is.
> There's a couple of songs I do that work well if I do the FADE while I'm
> recording the loop. It also helps me to hear when the loop is coming back
> to the beginning. Sometimes I get carried away soloing and it helps to
> get an auditory cue of when to stop. There are other songs where I just
> double the rhythm part and play hard as I hit the stop switch so that the
> cutout is less noticeable.
>
> If you do get wired up with two amps, the volume pedal would be all you'd
> need to manipulate (pedipulate?) to get the effect you want though, since
> you could just fade the loop to off and not touch the Loopstation switch
> until you're finished with the song--it would be playing but with zero
> volume.
>
> But as far as a device, I don't know. When I turn the power off to my
> tube amps, the sound gradually fades out. You could just kick out the
> plug. Maybe a "lovely assistant" could turn the knob on the loopstation
> while you play?
>
> Dick Thaxter

From: Jeff Sherman <jsherman@lorainccc...>
Subject: Re: Need a device that might not exist.
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 05:58:48 GMT

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:32:31 -0500, Ed <<edncori@qis...>> wrote:

>Comments somewhere in here......
>
>Dick Thaxter wrote:
>
>> Jeff Sherman wrote:
>>
>> > I got this Loop Station for xmas and wanna try using it live/solo. I
>> > think I want a pedal that's like a volume pedal but sorta
>> > programmable. I want to hit a switch once and have it gradually fade
>> > out whatever signal's going through it, ideally over an adjustable
>> > amount of time, say, 5-20 seconds or so depending on the tune.
>> >
>>
>
>I know how to do this with the pedals I have. Using the a/b switch, I set up
>2 signal paths, one for the loop and one for the lead.

I can do that.

>On the loop signal, if
>I set the regenerate (or repeat) at a little less than max, and then hit the
>record button (with no input, i.e. current playing signal going through
>non-loop path) it'll fade out at a rate determined by the repeat control.

On the Boomerang? Like you can do on your Digitech Echo Plus, right?
I have one of those too. Does the Boomerang have that function? The
Boss RC20 doesn't do that. (I don't think.) You can't control the
regeneration. Should I wish it did, maybe?

Wait aminute though, I'm talking about long loops --- a typical
verse and chorus of a tune, say. Like over a minute. Wouldn't it
take forever to cycle in enough overdubbed 'silence' to replace what's
there?

>For some songs, I just use a vol. pedal on the output of the looper (or in the
>case of the Boomerang, there is a foot controlled volume knob to fade the loop
>signal).

The Boomerang has that too? Hmmmmm. The Boss has some extra features
that I'll never use. Wish it had that instead.

Hmmm. I guess that wouldn't be too tough, right? Maybe even kinda
fun. OK, I'm sold. Volume pedal it is. I've ben wanting one for
some jobs anyway. (No on-board volume on the new Taylor.)
>
>For some songs, I go back to the loop, resume playing it, hit stop on the
>looper and then fade it out playing it. Like Dick says below.

>I've never seen one but I bet someone makes an auto fade pedal.

Something dj's or keyboard players might have? Maybe not even as a
pedal but that could be worked around.

Hmmm. Volume pedal's the way to go it seems.

Can you switch around between phrases on the fly with Boomerang?

Jeff

From: Jeff Sherman <jsherman@lorainccc...>
Subject: Re: Need a device that might not exist.
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 14:32:14 GMT

On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:03:57 -0500, Ed <<edncori@qis...>> wrote:

>Yeah... if you see a pic of a Boom, there is a big horizontal dial on the left
>side. It is a volume control for the loop. Actually there is a footswitch there
>also... it stops the incoming signal from going through.

That is a nice feature.

>Volume pedals are great... Lots of effects you can get from them. They do funky
>stuff sometimes though. They mess with the impedance and change the tone depending
>on where they are in the signal path. FWIW, Musicians Friend has some that are
>very economical (read "cheap".)

I notice the Boss catalogue that came with my new toy has 2 versions
of each of their 2 volume pedals --- a high impedance one 'for
connection before effects units" and a low impedance one 'ideal for
for keyboards or connection after effects units.'

I don't get that. What makes keys special? (They both have 1/4'
jacks, no xlrs, btw.)

Whatever brand I get I guess I want something low impedance because
its going in after the loop station, right?

Thanls for the Musican's Friend tip, Ed.

>Once you have one, they are pretty nice. You can tweak a lot of articulation out
>of just a vol. pedal on an electric. Did you ever listen to the old Genesis
>stuff? Steve Hackett was a big volume pedal user... incredible stuff.

Yeah. Nice effects. Old Glass Harp, too. I played my strat in the
country band circuit for years and got in the habit of pulling on the
volume knob all the time. You know how's its right there next to the
high e string? Nice for fake pedal steel and fiddle sounds or even to
swell whole chords here and there.

I need the volume pedal when I sit in with a particlular bluegrass
band. The guitarist/leader/buddy-of-mine uses a stage amp, plays REAL
loud --- I mean REALLY loud --- and he's always telling me I'm too
loud. LOL. I can't even hear mysel half the time.

After one song last night the mando player on my right tells me to
turn up so I said 'ok, thanks' and tweaked a knob. Literally one
second later as I turned back around my buddy on my left says I was a
'little loud on that last song." I said 'ok, thanks' and tweaked the
knob back where it was.

Kinda funny, I thought. Well, its his band and I'm just the sideman.
NBD. He's used to hearing a certain mix.

Anyway, I wanna be able to jump on top quickly just for my lead breaks
and then get back under the mix before anybody can bitch. You know,
sorta 'stealthy-like.'

OK, thanks Ed. Sorry to right ya my life story here.

Jeff

Spring reverb thingy for an acoustic? [2]
From: RJ Swanson <swanson1nospam@worldnet...>
Subject: Spring reverb thingy for an acoustic?
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:58:22 GMT
Organization: AT&T Worldnet

Greetings y'all!

I was digging out all my old electric guitar effects to see if I could trade
them towards a mandolin (by the way, I was shocked at the prices people are
getting for these bizarre little noise makers on ebay) and found an unusual
device that some of you may remember.

It's a mechanical spring reverb mechanism that attaches to the face of an
acoustic guitar. These little metal tongs fit under the strings at the
saddle and give the guitar a wierd kind of echo reverb sound.

Anyone mess with these before?

Russ

From: DEidelberg <deidelberg@aol...>
Subject: Re: Spring reverb thingy for an acoustic?
Date: 31 Dec 2001 04:11:46 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>>It's a mechanical spring reverb mechanism that attaches to the face of an
acoustic guitar. These little metal tongs fit under the strings at the
saddle and give the guitar a wierd kind of echo reverb sound.

Anyone mess with these before?<<

I bought an Aspri reverb back when Al Dimeola endorsed them. Sounded pretty
cool. Since the package said it would damage the finish on the guitar, I left
it on my HD28. Well, it permanently marred the finish near the endpin. Of
course they were out of business by then. I saw someone brought them back, but
I wouldn't let one near my guitar. Bastards.

David

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