| Anybody have trouble with carryon guitar since 9/11? [2] |
|---|
From: Hans Andersson <handers@tulane...>
Subject: Anybody have trouble with carryon guitar since 9/11?
Date: 17 Sep 2001 11:07:06 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
I am going to Boston on Thursday. I have always had good luck carrying
on my Lowden. I wonder if the current circumtsnces will change that. I
do not want to check it, tho' I will gate check if I must.
Anybody traveling with a guitar since Sept 11?
Hans
From: Hmemerson <hmemerson@aol...>
Subject: Re: Anybody have trouble with carryon guitar since 9/11?
Date: 17 Sep 2001 18:32:45 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Hi Hans,
I flew to SF on 9/4 via United. On the phone, I was told I could gate-check at
JFK.
When I got there, they said no, but they put the guitar on a hand cart and
walked it to the plane so it didn't do the conveyor belt deal.
It was suppose to be with the odd-sized luggage in SF, but wound up on the
baggage carousel anyway.
It wasn't the least bit affected, though I was pretty disappointed.
Anyway...........
When I flew from SF to SeaTac on 9/8, Alaska Airlines allowed me to gate-check
and the guitar was brought to me as I exited the plane.
Perfect.
Now, when I flew from SeaTac to JFK this past Saturday (9/15), even with all
the security, etc., they allowed me to gate-check. When I brought the guitar to
the door of the plane, the steward said,"I think we probably have room in the
cabin, but leave it here and I'll let you know."
I sat down in my seat, and about 5 minutes later an announcement was made,"Mr.
Emerson, your guitar is in the first class upright closet"
That was United Airlines on my return home.
The 4 bottles of wine I drank were free as well.
My wife picked me up at JFK and we drove home.
Good luck with your flight.
Best regards,
Howard Emerson
| Anyone flown very recently with your guitar as carry on or gate check? [4] |
|---|
From: Hank Mauel <whmauel@neworld...>
Subject: Re: Anyone flown very recently with your guitar as carry on or gate check?
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 09:28:25 -0700
Organization: InReach Internet
--
"Ed Bianchi" <<ebianchi@enounce...>> wrote in message
news:<3BC070E5.BE9337D5@enounce...>...
> Wondering if anything has changed at the major airports where they might
> stop letting guitars at least up to a gate check.
> Thanks
> -Ed Bianchi
Hi Ed..
Both Lance McCollum and I flew last weekend to St Louis via TWA. The folks
at the TWA counter 'suggested' checking the guitars (both in Calton flight
cases) and after going through all the new security procedures, I'm sure
that was the 'easiest' way out! Security procedures even had random checks
that involved people removing their shoes, which then went through the
security scanners. I'm sure they would have REALLY loved to get hold of a
guitar in it's case...especially if there were any electronics on board the
instrument!
Our instruments arrived safely in St Louis, and likewise on the return trip
to California.
So, I guess it's down to checking them through with baggage. Sounds like a
boon for Calton/Mark Leaf/etc type flight cases.
Hank
Hank Mauel
Mauel Guitars
http://www.mauelguitars.com
>
>
>
>
From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: Anyone flown very recently with your guitar as carry on or gate check?
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:33:57 -0400
Ed asked:
> Wondering if anything has changed at the major airports where they might
> stop letting guitars at least up to a gate check.
I flew the Sunday after the WTC attack, and then returned home a week later.
I checked the guitar in normal baggage on the trip out...I didn't try to
carry it on or gate check.
On the trip back, I asked for a gate check and got it. Then, at the door of
the aircraft, I asked the flight attendent if it was possible to carry it
on...she said it was OK if it fit in the first class closet (it did).
This was on Midwest Airlines, which is hardly a typical operation. They're
my favorite US airline by a LONG way.
My observation is that the security personnel don't seem to have any issues
with guitars (be careful about sharp tools in your case), and that the
chances of carrying on are enhanced by half-empty flights. As ever, though,
be prepared to check it in normal baggage if you catch a gate agent having a
bad day.
--
Michael Pugh
From: <markjens@ix...>
Subject: Re: Anyone flown very recently with your guitar as carry on or gate check?
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 18:56:51 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
On Sun, 07 Oct 2001 17:54:13 GMT, Charles Park <<cjpark1@home...>>
wrote:
>
>
>Ed Bianchi wrote:
>
>> Wondering if anything has changed at the major airports where they might
>> stop letting guitars at least up to a gate check.
>> Thanks
>> -Ed Bianchi
>
>Hi Ed,
>
> I'll be flying in a week and a half with a guitar. Now we ask Johnny
>Asia how I will make out. :-)
>
> Seriously I'm feeling that the guitar will be even safer now going
>through with the luggage. I use a Calton case to protect against crushing,
>bashing, and whatever else those airport folks can think up.
>
> Calton has saved my instruments through the past and I hope the future
>brings more of the same.
>
>Charles Park
>
>
Ed, Charles, (and all),
Mark Hanson (Accent on Music) was in the Sacramento area this weekend.
With the current climate in and around airports, this has obviously
become a major concern among musicians. Mark said that he uses a two
pronged attack: first and foremost he wears a tie, looks respectable,
and smiles a lot (or was that first, second, and third foremost?).
Next, he carries his Collings in a padded gig bag on his shoulder, and
walks right on the airplane. The case fits through templates, and the
whole package fits into overhead bins. His traveling companion for
this weekend, Doug Smith, uses the "other" approach. The guitar in a
bullet-proof case in a padded case routine for his Goodall.
Mark Jensen
From: jobro <joNOTbro@compuserve...>
Subject: Re: Anyone flown very recently with your guitar as carry on or gate check?
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:28:52 -0800
Organization: Johnsons and Brophy
I flew from Anchorage to Fairbanks last week with a parlor sized guitar in a
hard shell case. I experienced no difference from the routine that I'm used
to from years of flying - absolutely no problem carrying on the guitar. Of
course, this is Anchorage which may or may not be a similar to major
airports in the lower 48. I did notice somewhat more vigilant security
routines, but no difference in the ability to carry on anything. (except of
course, nail files and pocket knives).
Dan Johnson
"Ed Bianchi" <<ebianchi@enounce...>> wrote in message
news:<3BC070E5.BE9337D5@enounce...>...
> Wondering if anything has changed at the major airports where they might
> stop letting guitars at least up to a gate check.
> Thanks
> -Ed Bianchi
>
>
>
>
| Airport Security Bill in House [2] |
|---|
From: Ed <edncori@qis...>
Subject: Re: Airport Security Bill in House
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 12:58:44 -0500
Organization: None here...
We tend to think of you as "special" too, Jeff.
Ed
Jeff Sherman wrote:
> Wow! I feel like a 'Special Interest.'
>
> Thanks for the update, David.
>
> Sherman
>
> > "David D. Berkowitz" wrote:
> >
> > We can thank the American Federation of Musicians in coordination with
> > Reps. Howard Coble (R-N.C.) and Collin C. Peterson (D-Minn) (according
> > to the Post, a trombone and guitar player) who managed to insert a
> > provision in the House version of the bill to allow musicians to carry
> > musical instruments onto airlines regardless of other carry-on baggage
> > restrictions. The House bill passed last night. The bill goes to
> > conference to reconcile it with the Senate bill and onto El
> > Prezidente. I decline to comment on the merits of either bill, but
> > suffice it to say, I like this provision very much.
> >
> > Hooray!
> >
> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26856-2001Nov1.html
> >
> > --
> > David D. Berkowitz
> > Berkowitz Guitars
> > 301 12th St, SE
> > Unit 1
> > Washington, DC 20002
> > (202) 543-1806
> > <ddb@berkowitzguitars...>
> > http://www.berkowitzguitars.com
From: David D. Berkowitz <ddb@berkowitzguitars...>
Subject: Re: Airport Security Bill in House
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 19:55:00 GMT
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_025C_01C163AF.6A61B760
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok. Here's the link to the correct bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c107:./temp/~c107swGCWtSEC. 106. ENHANCED SECURITY MEASURES.
Sec. 44918. Enhanced security measures`(a) IN GENERAL- To the extent the Under Secretary of =Transportation for Security determines appropriate, the Under Secretary =
shall take the following actions:
`(19) Develop security procedures to allow passengers =transporting a musical instrument on a flight of an air carrier to =
transport the instrument in the passenger cabin of the aircraft, =
notwithstanding any size or other restriction on carry-on baggage but =
subject to such other reasonable terms and conditions as may be =
established by the Under Secretary or the air carrier, including =
imposing additional charges by the air carrier.
--=20
David D. Berkowitz Berkowitz Guitars 301 12th St, SE Unit 1 Washington, DC 20002 (202) 543-1806 ddb@berkowitzguitars.com http://www.berkowitzguitars.com------=_NextPart_000_025C_01C163AF.6A61B760
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok. Here's the link to the =
correct=20
bill:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <A=20
href=3D"http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c107:./temp/~c107swGCWt">ht=
tp://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c107:./temp/~c107swGCWt</A></FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>SEC. 106. ENHANCED SECURITY MEASURES.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3>Sec. 44918. Enhanced security measures</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> `(a) IN=20
GENERAL- To the extent the Under Secretary of Transportation for =
Security=20
determines appropriate, the Under Secretary shall take the following=20
actions:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =20
`(19) Develop security procedures =
to allow=20
passengers transporting a musical instrument on a flight of an air =
carrier to=20
transport the instrument in the passenger cabin of the aircraft, =
notwithstanding=20
any size or other restriction on carry-on baggage but subject to such =
other=20
reasonable terms and conditions as may be established by the Under =
Secretary or=20
the air carrier, including imposing additional charges by the air =
carrier.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR> David D. =
Berkowitz<BR> =20
Berkowitz Guitars<BR> 301 12th St, =
SE<BR> =20
Unit 1<BR> Washington, DC 20002<BR> =
(202)=20
543-1806<BR> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:<ddb@berkowitzguitars...>"><ddb@berkowitzguitars...></A><BR>=
=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.berkowitzguitars.com">http://www.berkowitzguitars.com<=
/A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_025C_01C163AF.6A61B760--
| Advice for transporting guitars on planes [2] |
|---|
From: Lumpy <lumpy@digitalcartography...>
Subject: Re: Advice for transporting guitars on planes
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:12:42 -0700
Michael Tay wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone here has
> experience in taking acoustic
> guitars onto planes...
There's probably a couple thousand posts
on that subject in the google archives.
> ...the cargo
> hold is unpressurised...
Not likely.
> ...what should I do to safeguard
> my pride and joy?
Insure your guitar.
I traveled 25,000 air miles last year
with my guitar in a Hiscox case, checked
as regular baggage. Never had a problem in
the world. But the extra peace of mind that
the insurance gave me ($25US annual premium)
was certainly worth every penny.
So tell us about -
- What country
- What airline
- What kind of guitar
- What kind of case
lumpy
From: Fred Shrimer <ftshrimer@telus...>
Subject: Re: Advice for transporting guitars on planes
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:21:52 GMT
Probably too late for you now, but I just flew a four-leg trip last
week, and checked my Gibson in as luggage. It was packed in a Calton
case, and left tuned to pitch. It made the trip with no worries.
That's at least the fifth time I've flown that guitar that way.
For your situation, though, since Calton cases are typically specially
ordered to fit your guitar, i.e., the chances of finding a local dealer
who has a Calton or equivalent type case in stock that fits your guitar
are likely quite low, you may have to pack it very well in its case,
then locate an oversize shipping box at your local dealer, and surround
it on all six sides with lots of shock-absorbing stuff. Clothing and
towels and sleeping bags work well for this.
I've done that twice, but found it way more nuisance than the Calton
case route. In the two times I packed and checked it in that way, I
took Wade Miller's advice, found an old sleeping bag, and wrapped the
whole case in that, then made up the difference with other things, such
as my business suit, Docker "No-Iron" pants, hotel towels, etc etc. :-)
It also worked fine, but just a higher hassle factor. Take a couple
rolls of the clear packing tape. Duct tape is not as good, as it comes
off when the box is handled.
I don't think I'd buy the guitar a seat on the airplane, unless of
course you get to have its meal too. Or maybe you could play songs
badly until they pay you to shut up, thereby offsetting your higher
costs. <g>
Fred
Michael Tay wrote:
>
> G'Day all,
>
> newbie poster here, so apologies if I stumble into any minefields.
>
> I was wondering if anyone here has experience in taking acoustic
> guitars onto planes.
>
> The situation is this: I'm going on a trip next Friday and I'm taking
> my new guitar. The airline wants to charge me for an extra seat if I
> put the guitar in the cabin, which I don't want to pay, but the cargo
> hold is unpressurised.
>
> My question is, should I risk my guitar in the unpressurised cargo
> hold, and if it is safe, what should I do to safeguard my pride and
> joy?
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Michael Tay
| Recent Guitar Flight Report [2] |
|---|
From: Gregor Martin <gkmartin@ak...>
Subject: Recent Guitar Flight Report
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 17:48:44 -0900
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
On my recent trip to Seattle I took along my Martin OO 15, I acquired this
little guitar expressly for a travel instrument and it is in a Calton heavy
flight case. Leaving Alaska was no problem, I checked my luggage and walked
through the security portal where I shoved the cased guitar through the x
ray machine. I was not required to open the case for any further inspection.
I proceeded to the airplane, walked on with the guitar case in hand and the
stewardess said ,"Oh that will fit in the overhead bin and if it doesn't I
will put it in the closet for you". I was very surprised by the
accommodating attitude of the flight crew and inspection people and thought
to myself, this is a piece of cake. I was in for a major problem on the way
back to Alaska from Seattle ten days later however. I again checked my
luggage and got in the huge line for the inspection pat down. I had been in
line for an hour when an airport security person told me , "you are going to
have to check that(guitar) as regular luggage. I told the story of my
previous experience but was told that I could not walk on with the guitar or
gate check it and that the policy was changing by the hour. I was allowed to
retain my position in the massive line while checking the guitar which they
informed me would be insured by the airlines for $2500.00 which seemed fair
to me as the guitar and case value was well within that limit(a possible
down payment on a McAlister?). I was also told that I could increase the
insurance above the $2500 for $1.00 per thousand. They were careful to put
fragile stickers on the case and assured me that it would be hand carried to
and from the plane. I asked them why they weren't consistent with regard to
the rules and they said it was pretty much the choice of each airport as to
how they treated anything in the luggage area. I received my pat down which
included removing my shoes and standing on one foot and the other while they
ran the wand under the soles of my feet etc. While waiting to board the
flight to Anchorage another Alaska flight deplaned and low and behold here
comes a guy carrying a Martin case off the plane. The moral to this story is
do not expect any consistency with regard to you guitar and do expect to
check it on as regular luggage. If you don't have a flight case expect to
sign a waver for an improperly packed musical instrument. Lets hope that
when they get this fine tuned a bit more it will be easier and that the
legislation with regard to valuable musical instruments becomes law. If you
haven't had the displeasure of flying lately be ready for long waiting lines
and invasive procedures, it took me a total of 2 hours to get thought the
security check point and I had posted my ticket electronically and already
had my boarding pass.
Gregor Martin
From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: Recent Guitar Flight Report
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:04:39 -0500
Interesting story...I probably like it because it illustrates my own view
:-)
Most of the time, you won't have trouble walking on an airplane with a
guitar in its case. Sometimes you will. If you're not prepared to check
it, you'll either miss the flight, or risk losing the guitar. I personally
travel with my guitar in a gig bag...I've never been required to check it,
but I'm knowingly risking loss of the instrument (which is why I travel with
an instrument I can afford to lose).
Airlines and airports aren't consistant in their application of the rules,
and they don't have to be. Guitars are clearly outside carryon guidelines,
and anytime they let you do it, they've done you a favor that they're not
required to do again.
The tradeoff with a Calton case is that while it increases the protection of
the instrument, it's size increases the chances of being asked to check it.
I've never been asked to sign a waiver when checking an instrument (and I
don't currently own any ATA-approved cases), but it's true that airlines can
be exempt from covering losses from non-ATA approved cases. Happily, in
every damage incident of which I've ever been told, the airline paid for the
guitar.
FWIW, I haven't noticed any major differences in these policies since Sept.
11.
--
Michael Pugh
(falling a little short of my regular 100k airmiles this year)
| Flying with your instrument - a strategy [6] |
|---|
From: Peter MacDonald <pjmacd1@insightbb...>
Subject: Flying with your instrument - a strategy
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:59:04 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
This comes from Bev Lawton of the cittern-l group on yahoogroups.com.
I have his permission to post this here. It concerns a
"mandolin-on-steroids" type of instrument, but I think it is equally
applicable to guitars.
--------------------------------------------
Well I have flown London,UK to Dublin twice since Sept 11th with my 10
string Fylde in a hard Hiscox case with mixed results.
3 out of 4 taken onboard as hand luggage. The other time they wouldn't
let me have it in the cabin for space reasons - fair enough the flight
was full - BUT I had a spare ticket as a friend couldn't make the trip
- I requested the Cittern occupy the seat I had a ticket for but was
told "we are already 20 people overbooked" + "seats are for people not
instruments!" I made a bit of a fuss and pointed out that my
instrument was NOT going into the hold and if it didn't fly then
neither would I - the check-in girl said "fine we will just off-load
your luggage and leave without you" it was at this juncture I pointed
out that (A) Civil Aviation Authority and FAA regulations implicitly
forbid luggage to travel without an accompanying passenger (B) My
luggage was unmarked - and I wouldnt help them identify it! (C) All
luggage on that type of plane was in shaped palletised containers and
they would have to unload all eight of them from the plane first
(helps if you know aeroplanes a bit!) and then get all 250 of the
other passengers to identify thier luggage to find mine.
(C) they would certainly miss thier take-off slot and that the plane
was already turned around and "burning and turning" it would cost them
tens of thousands of pounds
(D) they couldn't make me actually get on the plane and if they
attempted to take off with my luggage I would walk to the nearest
phone and ask the CAA official to come to the ramp to intervene.
Eventually the check-in girl agreed to my request to get the loading
crew-chief to put my Cittern in a special hold most modern planes have
to carry animals ie nowhere near any other luggage that could damage
it.
The thing that really pissed me off though was that I had an empty
bloody seat next to me for the entire flight!!!
This is the only time I have ever had any trouble with check-in
personnel and even this was all conducted in a friendly manner - you
just need to know your facts and be persistant and stand your ground -
time is on your side.
In essence even before Sept 11th I ALWAYS make sure some luggage is
checked INTO the hold before opening negotiations - it's your trump
card - don't even let them see the case at the luggage check-in - open
negotiations at the departure ramp/gate!
Since Sept 11th particularily in the USA I imagine they are even
keener not to let unaccompanyied luggage travel!!!
Failing this advice - take up the piccolo :-p
Bev "The Bloke" Lawton
---------------------------------
I hope some folks find this useful, as well as amusing.
Peter
From: Adrian Legg <commercial-free@speech...>
Subject: Re: Flying with your instrument - a strategy
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:36:31 +0000
On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:23:04 +0000, No Busking wrote
(in message <a6i46h$8i$<1@bob...>>):
> I'm a very frequent traveller (usually with guitar, and usually carrying it
> on)...and didn't find it amusing at all. Perhaps I'm just a grump.
>
Perhaps you could try looking at it from the perspective of someone whose
modest living depends on an instrument's intact survival, who doesn't have
the money to get another one made in a huge rush, and who is looking at
cancelling work until it's fixed.
The man who made my road guitar _still_ has a huge flow of airline damage
repairs - he says if anything it's increased lately, and in only one of the
instances is the airline who did the damage showing any sign of taking some
responsibility for it. Some of the others apparently will pay some kind of
puny compensation per kilo.
Clearly flying in the US is often different to our experiences in Europe and
Canada - I had much more hassle and actual damage with Aer Lingus on a few
London/Dublin trips than I ever did with United, though with the latter I did
have Premier Exec for a couple of years, which naturally made life a little
less rigidly regulated.
> I hope I never fly with this guy.
That's probably your loss, the instrument sounds interesting.
Adrian
--
www.adrianlegg.com
From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: Flying with your instrument - a strategy
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:50:55 -0500
Hi Adrian,
> Perhaps you could try looking at it from the perspective of someone whose
> modest living depends on an instrument's intact survival, who doesn't have
> the money to get another one made in a huge rush, and who is looking at
> cancelling work until it's fixed.
Agreed, which is why I edited my original scathing reply down to "I hope I
never fly with this guy". His priorities and requirements in travel are
entirely different than mine, and in direct conflict. It would really piss
me off if my travel plans were delayed for several hours and connections
missed because he insisted on carrying an oversized instrument onto a flight
that really didn't have room for it. That might be wrong and selfish on my
part, but I REALLY DO hope to never be delayed by his antics.
It's worth you looking at it from my perspective as well...that of a weary
business traveller who just wants to get to his destination and get home and
doesn't care in the slightest about a carry-on package that is clearly
outside the guidelines.
> Clearly flying in the US is often different to our experiences in Europe
and
> Canada - I had much more hassle and actual damage with Aer Lingus on a few
> London/Dublin trips than I ever did with United, though with the latter I
did
> have Premier Exec for a couple of years, which naturally made life a
little
> less rigidly regulated.
I've travelled extensively in Europe, Adrian, usually with a guitar
(although only once on the London/Dublin route, and I didn't have a guitar
on that trip). Generally my experience has been about the same as in the
US...most of the time I can carry the instrument on, and on those times when
I can't, I've always been able to get a gate check, and I've never had an
instrument damaged.
Which isn't to say that damage doesn't occur. Instruments on flights are a
huge problem for guys with your requirements, and I really am sympathetic.
Wish I had an answer, but it doesn't make me any happier about an entire
plane being delayed because a guy won't gate check his flight case.
> That's probably your loss, the instrument sounds interesting.
He'd be unlikely to start playing it on the flight anyway (wouldn't that be
kind of rude?) I'd be happy to see him play a concert, and probably would
even be willing to host a house concert...I'd just rather not be held
hostage in my travel plans by his requirements.
--
Michael Pugh
From: Adrian Legg <commercial-free@speech...>
Subject: Re: Flying with your instrument - a strategy
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:50:36 +0000
On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:50:55 +0000, No Busking wrote
(in message <a6i9bf$d07$<1@bob...>>):
>[...]
>
> Agreed, which is why I edited my original scathing reply down to "I hope I
> never fly with this guy".
I can imagine the original draft :-)
>[...]
>
> It's worth you looking at it from my perspective as well...that of a weary
> business traveller who just wants to get to his destination and get home and
> doesn't care in the slightest about a carry-on package that is clearly
> outside the guidelines.
As a frequently totally shagged out traveller, I understand entirely.
However, keeping music alive needs some practical help here and there.
I don't think it's a huge deal for a carrier to take a bit of extra care with
the delicate tools of people who will do their best to amuse them when they
all get home, will play at their weddings, and try to offer emotional solace
or plain fun. Very many carrier staff already do. As ever though, it only
takes one bolshie ground-staffer to make life impossible. And it is hard to
understand why the application of extra money for an extra ticket for an
instrument that will be put in the overhead anyway regardless of said ticket
should make that situation somehow no longer a safety issue. That's happened
to me. Stuff like that and the overbooking aspect of this story makes us even
more cynical.
However, our man here was naive to assume that an instrument can ever be
lashed into a seat in the face of FAA regs, though BA once did it for me on a
complex multi-carrier flight.
>
>[...]
> I've travelled extensively in Europe, Adrian, usually with a guitar
> (although only once on the London/Dublin route, and I didn't have a guitar
> on that trip). Generally my experience has been about the same as in the
> US...most of the time I can carry the instrument on, and on those times when
> I can't, I've always been able to get a gate check, and I've never had an
> instrument damaged.
I got a gate check in with Aer Lingus, but only got it brought into the
baggage area by hand once after landing at Heathrow _after_ I got shreiked at
for walking away from the steps on the apron to have a word with the baggage
loader. Every other time it came slamming out of the conveyor nose first.
I've found the attitude to guitars much more positive in the US - naturally,
it's a well used instrument there. My big hassles have always been Europe or
Canada, but it's not a consistent thing. I made it to Corsica and back, and
to Bordeaux and back fine last year with Aer France with my little gig-bag,
and have instances of help above and beyond over the years.
But it was Aer Lingus who took the huge chunk out of a Calton, BA who wrecked
a Hiscox, and Virgin who left me fixing a broken strut in LA with a bit of
decorative picture frame. I don't think I had much option other than to use
an Adamas - wood guitars would never have survived some of those trips.
>
> Which isn't to say that damage doesn't occur. Instruments on flights are a
> huge problem for guys with your requirements, and I really am sympathetic.
> Wish I had an answer, but it doesn't make me any happier about an entire
> plane being delayed because a guy won't gate check his flight case.
I agree he's pushing his luck with a hard case. That's where safety regs
involving overhead catches bursting make sense, imho. He should have tried a
gig-bag before he staged the scene.
>
>> That's probably your loss, the instrument sounds interesting.
>
> He'd be unlikely to start playing it on the flight anyway (wouldn't that be
> kind of rude?)
I dunno - it's been suggested to me several times on United :-) I'd have some
questions for him though.
> I'd be happy to see him play a concert, and probably would
> even be willing to host a house concert...
The trouble is, he has to get there to do it. I know at least one player whois well known in this n.g. who has cut his touring down because of the
problems of getting anywhere and coming out of it with a whole guitar and bit
of money in his pocket, and I know I'm not the only one now who plans tours
around driveable circuits now rather than doing the leaps by plane. It cuts
out gigs, which is a shame - but my experience makes me think they'd only be
cut out anyway by busted or lost guitars.
I'd love to bring my new acoustic on the next jaunt, and while the pick-up
business is still a big problem, the travel side of it is the real worry.
It's a very small parlour size, so with a bit of luck the Di & I might make
the cabin ok with two guitars.
I know it seems unfair that musicians should ask for special dispensations,
but without them, and with the best will in the world, there is less live
music.
Adrian
--
www.adrianlegg.com
From: No Busking <nobusking@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: Flying with your instrument - a strategy
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:04:14 -0500
Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America
Adrian wrote:
> As a frequently totally shagged out traveller, I understand entirely.
> However, keeping music alive needs some practical help here and there.
> I don't think it's a huge deal for a carrier to take a bit of extra care
with
> the delicate tools of people who will do their best to amuse them when
they
> all get home, will play at their weddings, and try to offer emotional
solace
> or plain fun. Very many carrier staff already do. As ever though, it only
> takes one bolshie ground-staffer to make life impossible.
Yeah...I absolutely agree with everything you've written here. Professional
musicians traveling by air have a harder time than they should, and airlines
don't generally go out of their way to help as a matter of policy. My
experience has been pretty good with ground staff and cabin crew, but
occasionally I'll run in to someone that is determined to be unhelpful.
Your previous relationship with United is about the only solution...Premier
status has been helpful in getting me on airplanes with instruments as well.
Unfortunately, it's not possible to fly one airline everywhere all the time,
and it only takes one bonehead in luggage handling to turn a valuable
instrument into a toothpick collection.
> And it is hard to
> understand why the application of extra money for an extra ticket for an
> instrument that will be put in the overhead anyway regardless of said
ticket
> should make that situation somehow no longer a safety issue. That's
happened
> to me. Stuff like that and the overbooking aspect of this story makes us
even
> more cynical.
Agreed...the whole "buy a ticket for the instrument" ruse that airlines
sometimes try to foist is ridiculous. Why buy a ticket to put the
instrument in the overhead or in the first class closet? If the ticket were
for a "seat" for the guitar, it would be a different matter...but your
example is the only one I've ever heard where a ticket purchase actually got
the instrument a seat.
Did it have the chicken, beef, or veg for the in-flight meal?
The thing about this that's really frustrating is that the airlines don't
seem have a standard solution at ANY price. Every flight is a risk.
> I've found the attitude to guitars much more positive in the US -
naturally,
> it's a well used instrument there.
Oh, I don't know. You're from the British Isles, and you seem to use a
guitar pretty well. :-)
Yes, the guitar is such a big part of popular culture here that it's
possible flight crews are more inclined to be helpful...although, again, my
experience has been that it's about the same in Europe as it is here.
In the interest of fairness, though, my flights are generally in and out of
major cities in Europe, and are usually on large commercial jets. My
experience would likely be different if I consistantly riding puddle-jumpers
into Corsica. The few hassles I've had carrying instruments on flights in
the US have involved turbo-props...the solution there is to hand the guitar
to someone on the tarmac, stand there and watch them put it in the luggage
hold, and wait until they hand it to me at the far end.
> I agree he's pushing his luck with a hard case. That's where safety regs
> involving overhead catches bursting make sense, imho. He should have tried
a
> gig-bag before he staged the scene.
I've never been asked to check an instrument in a gig bag...have been able
to carry it on every time. The problem, though, is that the ONE time you
might be required to check the instrument, you could be pretty certain that
it would die a horrible death.
> I know it seems unfair that musicians should ask for special
dispensations,
> but without them, and with the best will in the world, there is less live
> music.
I have no problem with asking for special dispensations...I do it every time
I carry a guitar onboard. My attitude, though, is that I'm asking for a
favor...I don't have a RIGHT to carry the instrument on, unless it is within
the guidelines for carry-on luggage. Granted, I have that luxury because my
living isn't earned from playing guitar, but my career DOES involve
travelling a great deal, and my rights to safe and convenient air travel are
just as valid as any musician's.
In the situation described, there's no question that the airline was being
PARTICULARLY unhelpful. I guess the bit that really pissed me off was when
he declared that he would refuse to help them ID his luggage, thereby
holding the entire flight hostage to his demands (he saw that as a good and
noble thing!!!). When my children were younger and acted like that, I
spanked them (now I just glare).
I wish there were an acceptable solution, and believe that the airlines
should come up with a standard approach to dealing with professional
musicians that are just trying to get to the next gig. But as a passenger,
I think this guy behaved like an ass in the specific situation.
For the record...my best success has been as follows: If I'm asked to check
the instrument, I ask for a gate check (on the theory that the ticket agent
has already decided not to help me, and further discussion with them will
only exacerbate the situation). When I'm about to board the plane, I smile
at the flight attendant, explain that I've been given a gate-check tag for
the instrument, tell them it's very valuable and dear to me, and ask if
there's any way it can be carried on...usually, they'll say yes and help me
find a suitable place to put it.
But that's probably just because of my natural charm. ;-)
Cheers,
Mike
From: Ken Cashion <kcashion@datasync...>
Subject: Re: Flying with your instrument - a strategy
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:41:12 GMT
Organization: Datasync
On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:59:04 GMT, Peter MacDonald
<<pjmacd1@insightbb...>> wrote:
>This comes from Bev Lawton of the cittern-l group on yahoogroups.com.
>I have his permission to post this here. It concerns a
>"mandolin-on-steroids" type of instrument, but I think it is equally
>applicable to guitars.
I do not believe that this is the time in the US to startquoting specs to employees who are afraid of losing their jobs and
they themselves do not understand the regs.
The airline terminal employees are very much like our IRSfolks now. They can handle the straight paperwork but if there is a
problem, they buck it upstairs because they are not getting paid to
understand the constantly-changing conditions.
The aircraft might just shut down and the airline file chargesagainst the offending party. And this can be pretty much whomever
they identify as offensive.
We had little control over our air travel before and less now.We still have to just surrender our bodies to the aluminum tube and
pray for the best.
There is nothing that cannot be transported safely in a box onan airline.
I use to transport highly delicate and expensive opticalequipment internationally and they were hand-carried and strapped in
the seat next to me.
Once when I couldn't go, we hired a security courier. Hedropped the box -- unit inside was destroyed.
I designed a shipping box and we stopped hand-carrying them. The instrument was 12" long and 6" diameter and weighed about20 lbs. The shipping case was an 18" cube.
I had designed the case for twice the worst that could beimagined and I shipped a mockup on a circuitus route that would sample
serveral airports and handling arrangements.
When it finally arrived back to me, I could "read" how manyg's it was exposed to and on what axis. I had a record of maximum
humidity and pressure differencial it had experienced.
There is no reason to carry a musical instrument on board anaircraft with the idea of protecting it. A proper case is available
-- or could be made in most garage workshops.
Ken Cashion
| flying with guitar - yes or no? [7] |
|---|
From: Hojo2x <hojo2x@aol...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no?
Date: 18 Mar 2002 06:55:43 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
After the lovely and talented Susan Jurist wrote:
>>flying with guitar - yes or no?
>> Has anyone carried an OM sized hard-shell case on recently?
The equally lovely and equally talented Larry Pattis wrote:
>
>Definitely worth trying. Take it in the Calton, and do the regular >things
you would do to get on-board....
>
>I fly April 1st....and I haven't decided if I'm going>to take the Calton, or
risk the gig bag....I'll probably end up taking
>my own advice and take the Calton...
Susan, Larry -
Don't dick around. Put your guitars in Calton cases and check them through.
I'm currently traveling, and I couldn't even get a mandolin into the cabin with
me out of Anchorage: the obnoxious check-in clerk at the Alaska Airlines
counter had me sized up as a green-eyed blonde Al Qaeda terrorist the minute
she saw my musical instrument.
When I asked to speak to her supervisor and explained that the instrument would
easily fit in the overhead compartment and that I carry mandolins with me all
the TIME when I fly, there were instantly two airport police (not one but TWO)
right THERE right THEN because I damn well DARED to gently remonstrate with
this idiot woman about her illogic and unfairness.
There was another guy with a guitar in a gigbag being allowed onboard, I saw
him and pointed him OUT, but he had a different check-in clerk.
So he and his instrument were clearly NOT a threat to civilization as we know
it, but because I had the clerk I had, I clearly was.
No bad language on my part. I made no accusations of stupidity or malice
against her (though both were pretty obvious,) and didn't even raise my voice.
Yet there were two bored shitheads in bulletproof vests standing by, BRISTLING
with weapons and ready to kick my ass, and shoot me if necessary for the crime
of wanting to bring a mandolin onboard a commercial aircraft.
(Okay, so maybe mandolin possession SHOULD be a federal crime....but that's
another thread topic entirely....)
Two days later in San Jose, no problem. Everyone I dealt with was perfectly
lovely, and I carried the mandolin onboard without any problems.
Short version: whether you or anyone else gets to carry a musical instrument
onboard a commercial flight these days is STRICTLY a matter of whim.
Don't expect fairness.
Don't expect justice.
Don't expect the basic American right to complain to someone at a higher level
of authority if some officious twit decides to treat you like shit, for
whatEVER reason.
I think anyone who's ever traveled regularly with musical instruments
instinctively understands that there are some frustrated control freaks in the
airline industry who just flat out HATE musical instruments and the people who
carry them.
I can understand WHY - as a class we musicians are whiny and want our delicate,
expensive guitars to be treated with civility and care, instead of drop-kicked
like a football aimed as a field goal from thirty yards out.
And that pisses some airline employees OFF, mainly those who don't like dealing
with the public to begin with.
Well, it used to be we could appeal to reason and to their supervisors' better
natures, but - for right now, anyway - the officious twits have the upper hand.
I know plenty of people have had no trouble whatsoEVER getting their guitars
onboard since 9/11, but you CANNOT count on that.
If you have to fly, put your instruments in the best cases you have, and check
them through. If you want to see if the airline employees will let you on with
a gigbag, fine, but if you go to the airport without a proper case as a backup,
I shudder to think what could happen.
I'm serious as a heart attack here.
Don't dick around.
Wear shoes you can step in and out of easily, and give yourself plenty of time
to trudge through the endless lines while security personnel who barely speak
English wave electric widgets over your crotch to see if you have weapons of
mass destruction tucked into your boxer shorts.
The security guy at the Seattle airport was waving his electronic wand over my
dick when I asked him: "What happens when folks have got PIERCINGS down there,
sport?"
This guy spoke English:
"That's when it gets INTERESTING..." he mumbled.
Don't screw around.
Don't let some malicious peabrains with too much power have any more control
over your life than you absolutelly have to give them.
Put your guitars in cases and check them through. It'll make your life easier
and your check-in time faster.
Wade Hampton "Gee, I Guess I Don't Have Any Strong Opinions On THIS Topic"
Miller
Chugiak, Alaska
From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no?
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:22:37 -0500
Wade wrote:
> I think anyone who's ever traveled regularly with musical instruments
> instinctively understands that there are some frustrated control freaks in
the
> airline industry who just flat out HATE musical instruments and the people
who
> carry them.
Same as it ever was...we've always been at the whim of control freaks. The
only thing that's changed is that they now have a bit of extra
self-righteousness. If you travel a lot with instruments, you'll eventually
have to check them.
My advice is to take the Calton, Susan. It increases the chance that you'll
have to check it, but greatly increases the survivability of the instrument
if you do.
Larry...I carry guitars onboard all the time in gigbags, and have only been
asked to check it once (and they allowed me to carry-on after a short
conversation). HOWEVER...I never go to the airport with a guitar in a
gigbag unless it's a small instrument that clearly fits within the carry-on
size restrictions (Baby Taylor), or it's an instrument I'm willing to lose
(Blueridge Dreadnaught). I'm guessing that the instrument with which you're
traveling is neither small nor disposable...my recommendation would be to
bring the Calton.
Wade further commented:
> (Okay, so maybe mandolin possession SHOULD be a federal crime....but
that's
> another thread topic entirely....)
Mandolins are OK, but I'd sure like to see some bagpipe legislation.
Cheers,
--
Michael Pugh
From: Jim McCrain <jim@mccrain...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no?
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:17:50 -0600
Organization: Walrus Sound Productions
Hojo2x wrote:
> ... the obnoxious check-in clerk at the Alaska Airlines
> counter had me sized up as a ... Al Qaeda terrorist ...
>
> ...When I asked to speak to her supervisor ....
>
> ...There was another guy with a guitar in a gigbag being allowed onboard, I saw
> him and pointed him OUT, but he had a different check-in clerk....
>
> ...No bad language on my part. I made no accusations of stupidity or malice
> against her (though both were pretty obvious,) and didn't even raise my voice....
Last year when I was flying from Anchorage to Dallas after a climb of Mt. McKinley,
I had this very same experience at Alaska Airlines. The only difference was to
substitute a case/box of climbing gear for a guitar. This very case had been
checked from Dallas to Salt Lake City and then on to Anchorage just a month before,
and there were no problems. But trying to get that box OUT of Alaska cost me an
extra $100! The check-in clerk put the box on the scale and said it was
over-weight, even though the scale clearly showed it to be 10 pounds UNDER the
limit.
When I asked to see her supervisor, she threatened to call security and have me
arrested! I decided to pay the fraudulent bill, took down her name and employee
number, and went on home. I sent in a written complaint, along with copies of all
the reciepts. Three months later, I got an apologetic letter from the President of
Alaska Airlines and a refund check of $100. Of course, they hoped that I would fly
with Alaska Air in the future. I replied that I wouldn't!
So, it all depends on who you get at the check-in counter. I shudder to think what
would have happenned to any guitar I had been carrying at the time!
Jim "I am going back to Alaska, but I will fly Delta" McCrain
From: Karl <acoustikarl@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no?
Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:37:26 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
<hojo2x@aol...> (Hojo2x) wrote in message news:<<20020318015543.07675.00002330@mb-fj...>>...
> I'm currently traveling, and I couldn't even get a mandolin into the cabin with
> me out of Anchorage: the obnoxious check-in clerk at the Alaska Airlines
> counter had me sized up as a green-eyed blonde Al Qaeda terrorist the minute
> she saw my musical instrument.
There was an article a few weeks ago in the Seattle Times about
musicians and instruments and airlines. In the article they told of
one fellow who Alaska Airlines made purchase a ticket at $160 for his
violin and then made him put it in the overhead bin once on the
airplane.
The article is at: http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=violin18m&date=20020218&query=VIOLINS
If that doesn't work go to www.seattletimes.com and click "search
archive" in the upper right corner and type in "violin" for the search
criteria.
Karl J.
From: Gregor Martin <gkmartin@ak...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no?
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:42:27 -0900
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
"Hojo2x" wrote > About his recent experience with air travel and musical
instruments.
Snipped: One mildly vehement post.
Wade,
I understand exactly what you went through and I have pointed this out in
previous posts that I wrote on the subject. The only way to go these days is
to spring for a Calton, Mark Leaf or some other flight worthy case and just
check it as luggage. I prefer to try to eliminate the possibility of any
stressful confrontations with already overstressed airline personnel. I
think it is important to bring the fact that one cannot depend on carrying
on or gate checking a musical instrument these days to the attention of
musicians who plan to fly. Thanks for a fresh update.
Gregor Martin
From: Ron McCollum <ronmcc4@earthlink...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no?
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 03:52:47 GMT
Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net
snip snip snip
My recent flight out of Memphis, TN on Delta just proves again that there is
no consistency or reason in some airline personnel's behavior. I wasn't
allowed to carry my Baby Taylor in its gig bag even away from the ticket
counter. Strange. I just took it back out to the car and left it - praying
for good weather for the guitar while on my trip. I've since bought a
checkable luggage case for it so as not to get caught again. Funny thing -
on my connecting flight, a guy with a full sized guitar in a gig bag gets on
with no problem. It would almost my two of my Baby....bottom line is -
check your guitar. It is entirely possible to be allowed to board at one
airport with it but not at the connecting leg. And no, they wouldn't allow
me to gate check it either.
Ron
From: jobro <jobroAT@compuserveDOT...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no?
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:32:48 -0900
Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services
Jim McCrain <<jim@mccrain...>> wrote
> Jim "I am going back to Alaska, but I will fly Delta" McCrain
Don't come up to Fairbanks, Jim, Delta bowed out in November and AK Airlines
has little or no competition. Oh, you can get to and from Anchorage on
Frontier , but the schedule is very limited, and NW has a limited schedule
to Minneapolis in the summer. Juneau? It's your only practical option at
this time.
RE the point at hand:
I've always had pretty good luck with Alaska, but haven't tried to carry
instruments since 9-11-01. They almost always accomodated me throughout the
90s when I traveled quite a bit.
Second point: There was an email message circulating around the youth
orchestras group here in Fairbanks this winter that basically said the same
thing as Wade - Alaska Airlines was not allowing any violins (!!!) in the
cabin. This just blew my mind and seriously, I simply DID NOT beliieve it
and really thought it was one of those urban legand type email things that
go around every once in a while. I said as such to my wife many times. But
since my kids play cello and bass, it was a moot point and I didn't
challenge it on the mailing list. Now I see that although there is
apparently some give and take, it might actually be the truth. I don't
believe AK Airlines would have ever refused a carry on mandolin or violin
pre-9/11, and they almost always allowed guitars in HSC.
As for the question of do we have the right to carry on things that we don't
have to use on the plane, I say, why the hell not? If it fits their
standards for size and does not harm or inconvenience other passengers, why
not? Why, for instance, should a lap top computer, personal backpack or
purse, or small suitcase be allowed and not a small hollow wooden instrument
that is easily and efficiently inspected? The airlines have every right and
responsibility to set standards for size and safety (as well as health,
noise,etc.), but within those standards they have no business deciding what
objects we carry on.
When you live in Fairbanks, air travel is not an option, it is a necessity
for ALL business and pleasure travel. We're 360 tough miles - a long and
hard full day's drive - from Anchorage and 3 - 5 days from the northern tier
of U.S. states. I've used Alaska Airlines and it's competitors in Alaska
and the pacific northwest for 22 years. I'd rate AK Airlines excellent
whenever they have meaningful competition in their market, but in the
several times I've been exposed to their monopoly corporate behavior in the
Fairbanks and other markets, it ABSOLUTELY STINKS in terms of price, service
and on-time record. Stinks very, very badly and I would use anyone else if
I had the chance. But we don't up here in much of the state at this time.
Dan Johnson.
| flying with guitar - Checking it thru? [13] |
|---|
From: TarBabyTunes <tarbabytunes@aol...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: 20 Mar 2002 16:06:39 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
This has been a really interesting thread, and thanks to all who have
contributed.
Now... The overwhelming majority have recommended checking the guitar thru to
the destination, and many have recommended aftermarket cases (e.g., the
Calton).
I have a couple more questions to perhaps put a finer point on this matter:
1) How safe from damage is a guitar when checked thru baggage handling on
domestic &/or international flights?
2) Can this be done with a standard, good quality hardshell case, or only with
a sturdier after-mkt case?
I'm sure there are horror stories about instruments being destroyed, but I'd
rather avoid the gory details for a statistical sort of overview, as in 'how
likely is it that an instrument will be damaged by airline baggage handling?'
Please don't scare me with details of splintered lovelies? <G>
Thanks,
stv
From: No Busking <nobusking@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:13:30 -0500
Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America
> I have a couple more questions to perhaps put a finer point on this
matter:
>
> 1) How safe from damage is a guitar when checked thru baggage handling on
> domestic &/or international flights?
>
> 2) Can this be done with a standard, good quality hardshell case, or only
with
> a sturdier after-mkt case?
They have to try pretty hard to damage a Calton case, but it can be done.
The advantage is that Caltons are considered flight cases (ATA approved),
and the airline is liable for damage that occurs (subject to limits...I'm
not sure what they are currently, but last I checked they were under $2,000)
To be fair, though, I'm familiar with 3 incidents where guitars in regular
hard-cases were destroyed, and the airline paid for the damage each
time...they're just not legally required to do so. I'm not aware of any
incidents where a guitar in a Calton was damaged (although I'm sure it
occurs occasionally).
I've never had a guitar in a normal case damaged from luggage handling, with
several hundred-thousand miles of travelling with instruments under my belt.
Still, I would never check an irreplaceable or expensive instrument in a
regular plywood or molded case - eventually, the odds will probably catch up
with me. I bought my Blueridge Dreadnaught specifically for the purposes of
travelling (plywood case). I carry it on whenever possible, but am
comfortable with checking it since it can be replaced if destroyed.
Not so with my Northworthy. On the flight back from England, I checked it
in it's Calton Case...they hand-carried it to the hold, and handed it to me
on the other end. I didn't even have to ask them to do so. Virgin was the
airline. I was very impressed with the care they took - not even a scratch
on the case.
Most of the time, you'll be fine. You can improve your odds by packing
newspaper or socks tightly under the headstock to prevent it from snapping
off if the instrument is dropped. Make sure that all parts of the
instrument fit snug in the case...again, use underwear or socks to firm it
up if it's loose.
Loosening strings or not is an ongoing debate here. I don't loosen the
strings, but there are those that will tell you to reduce the tension
somewhat...who knows what the right answer is.
Just one horror story...a friend's HD28 was destroyed when they somehow
drove a forklift through the regular molded case. The airline paid for a
replacement, and he mounted the Martin on the wall in his study.
Hope this helps,
Mike
From: Gregor Martin <gkmartin@ak...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:17:07 -0900
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
"No Busking" wrote about airline liability and flight cases for
instruments.
I got basically the same info from the airlines Mike. If the instrument is
in an approved flight case they would insure up to $2500.00 UP.SO. (Alaska
Airlines) and if in an approved case you also had the latitude to up the
insurance at a rate of one dollar per thousand I think it was. They also
told me that I could ask for special handling in which case the guitar would
be carried to the plane and then hand carried off the plane which they did
do. As Wade and others have pointed out though this and other procedures
varies considerably form one airport to the next. The key to flying with or
without an instrument is be prepared for inconveniences and changes is
policy without notice. A friend of mine just came back from a trip to Las
Vegas on Alaska airlines, no problems going down but when he came back they
found some syringes in his luggage. My friend is a diabetic and has a
prescription for the equipment but was still subjected to everything short
of a cavity search before he finally told them to take the syringes and
insulin if it was going to cause him to miss his flight and at that they
allowed him to board with his medicine after a supervisor was called to
mediate. I think these inconveniences are here to stay so we all need to be
aware and adjust accordingly.
Gregor Martin
From: HL <sweefmy@singnet...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:39:14 +0800
Organization: Singapore Telecommunications Ltd
"AMost2001" <<amost2001@aol...>> wrote in message
> I carry my electric ALWAYS in a gig bag onboard with me. Never had a
problem.
> Okay well once I did on a puddle jumper - they took it underneath. it was
a
> real small plane & they treated it fairly well....I think.,
Thanks! 'cos I'm making a trip from LA back to Singapore in June and will be
carrying my electric in a gig bag. This makes me feel more at ease :)
cheers,
john swee
From: CineStudy <cinestudy@aol...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: 21 Mar 2002 08:42:39 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
I would not be so a ease. I fly many international flights. I have seen many
tearfull pickers as they watch the axes in gig bags put in bubble wrap. Every
flight is different so rember Murphys Law. I now travel with a Backpacker. If
you really care about how it arrive pack it like it is going to be manhandled
and lost at see. This is a word from the wise who has seen it all. I was a tour
manager for rock bands in the eighties and things were nicer then..but not that
nice. Now it's a different story, you have to be really prepaired. And remeber
you are flying in June, peek season and a full plane most likely.
Rick Schmidlin
From: No Busking <nobusking@erols...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:21:43 -0500
> But I'm sorry, I don't think I quite understand this one part...
> Do you mean that the liability limits are under $2k?
Yes, that's what I meant, although Gregor has updated the number to $2500.
You can buy insurance at the airport above that (although I never have).
Someone said earlier that you have to have an ATA case to buy airport
insurance...I've never heard that before, but it's quite possibly true.
Lumpy has stated previously that he just buys instrument insurance on an
annual basis, checks his guitars in flight cases, and doesn't worry about
it. That sounds like a pretty good idea to me, if you're going to travel
with valuable instruments.
--
Michael Pugh
From: MKarlo <mkarlo@aol...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: 20 Mar 2002 22:50:57 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
In article <<0A02108B2ECFB875.8E7230AAA9830A64.40C8F133296CDCAF@lp...>>,
"No Busking" <<nobusking@yahoo...>> writes:
>Most of the time, you'll be fine. You can improve your odds by packing
>newspaper or socks tightly under the headstock to prevent it from snapping
>off if the instrument is dropped. Make sure that all parts of the
>instrument fit snug in the case...again, use underwear or socks to firm it
>up if it's loose.
>
Another idea which I tried when shipping my guitars is putting a large roll of
toilet paper under the headstock. Get the oversized roll (the only way to go
in my household of six!) and remove paper to size. Makes a perfect, tight
little cushion. As an added bonus, you'll have a spare roll for those trips
into third world countries. Although, you'll probably get some unusual looks
if you open the case to check your baby at the airport, I'm sure.
Be sure to cushion the area around the neck/body joint too.
Mr. Wipple
From: John Williams <johndwilliams@qwest...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:57:18 -0800
Your guitar is NOT safe in any case.
1) Find an easy-to-replace instrument in the lowest price-bracket that is
serviceable for what you play.
2) Put it in the best, ATA-approved case you can get, with your name and
hometown in BIG letters on the outside. Lock the case. If it gets stolen
and the thief happens to get questioned (unlikely, but you gotta hope), no
key and the wrong name on the outside would be hard to explain.
If you have to move an expensive, boutique, instrument a large distance,
consider shipping UPS, FedEx, etc. with lots of insurance.
When I traveled extensively with a Tele, I used to remove the strings,
unscrew the neck, and pack it in a normal sized suitcase.
--
John Williams
http://www.mp3.com/handpicked
"TarBabyTunes" <<tarbabytunes@aol...>> wrote in message
news:<20020320110639.14591.00002642@mb-da...>...
>
> This has been a really interesting thread, and thanks to all who have
> contributed.
>
> Now... The overwhelming majority have recommended checking the guitar
thru to
> the destination, and many have recommended aftermarket cases (e.g., the
> Calton).
>
> I have a couple more questions to perhaps put a finer point on this
matter:
>
> 1) How safe from damage is a guitar when checked thru baggage handling on
> domestic &/or international flights?
>
> 2) Can this be done with a standard, good quality hardshell case, or only
with
> a sturdier after-mkt case?
>
> I'm sure there are horror stories about instruments being destroyed, but
I'd
> rather avoid the gory details for a statistical sort of overview, as in
'how
> likely is it that an instrument will be damaged by airline baggage
handling?'
>
> Please don't scare me with details of splintered lovelies? <G>
>
> Thanks,
>
> stv
From: robohop <rjand@ix...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: 21 Mar 2002 06:30:50 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
I fly several times a year and take my "secondary guitar" with me in a
standard skb hard shell case. (My trips usually include hops into
small airports and islands as well as big major airports). I tape the
latches shut with packing tape and I've never had any damage of any
sort.
This is not to disagree necessarily with any of the points made in the
thread, just adding that I've spent the last 5 or 6 years just closing
my eyes and checking them and never had a problem.
Your results may vary,
best,
rob anderson
"John Williams" <<johndwilliams@qwest...>> wrote in message news:<ZEem8.179$<TZ3.143410@news...>>...
> Your guitar is NOT safe in any case.
>
> 1) Find an easy-to-replace instrument in the lowest price-bracket that is
> serviceable for what you play.
>
> 2) Put it in the best, ATA-approved case you can get, with your name and
> hometown in BIG letters on the outside. Lock the case. If it gets stolen
> and the thief happens to get questioned (unlikely, but you gotta hope), no
> key and the wrong name on the outside would be hard to explain.
>
> If you have to move an expensive, boutique, instrument a large distance,
> consider shipping UPS, FedEx, etc. with lots of insurance.
>
> When I traveled extensively with a Tele, I used to remove the strings,
> unscrew the neck, and pack it in a normal sized suitcase.
>
> --
>
> John Williams
> http://www.mp3.com/handpicked
>
>
> "TarBabyTunes" <<tarbabytunes@aol...>> wrote in message
> news:<20020320110639.14591.00002642@mb-da...>...
> >
> > This has been a really interesting thread, and thanks to all who have
> > contributed.
> >
> > Now... The overwhelming majority have recommended checking the guitar
> thru to
> > the destination, and many have recommended aftermarket cases (e.g., the
> > Calton).
> >
> > I have a couple more questions to perhaps put a finer point on this
> matter:
> >
> > 1) How safe from damage is a guitar when checked thru baggage handling on
> > domestic &/or international flights?
> >
> > 2) Can this be done with a standard, good quality hardshell case, or only
> with
> > a sturdier after-mkt case?
> >
> > I'm sure there are horror stories about instruments being destroyed, but
> I'd
> > rather avoid the gory details for a statistical sort of overview, as in
> 'how
> > likely is it that an instrument will be damaged by airline baggage
> handling?'
> >
> > Please don't scare me with details of splintered lovelies? <G>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > stv
From: Tom Loredo <loredo@astro...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:22 -0500
Organization: Cornell University
David Wilcox had his 1st Olson stolen from the baggage handling area
at Denver Int'l airport (probably...) several years ago. He was
bumped from a flight, and his checked baggage, including his guitar,
flew on without him. The guitar just vanished, and it's suspected
someone picked it up from the baggage area in Denver. This happened
in March 1997.
The nightmare of being bumped and having my guitar fly away
without me is something I don't even want to think about!
This raises an interesting question: With all the current rules
about passengers having to fly with their baggage, if you get
bumped from a flight, does your baggage still go without you?
Peace,
Tom Loredo
From: CineStudy <cinestudy@aol...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: 21 Mar 2002 20:44:30 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Under flight rules you baggage is supposed to be on the same plane, but believe
me this is not the case. My mother flew to meet me in Bologna Italy over the
Christmas and it took three days for her bags to arrive from Frankfurt. If your
conection is less then 45 minutes don't count on it. And remember the airlines
only pay for lost baggage by the pound! If you miss or are late on a connecting
flight the chance is you guitar will be on another. There is no easy answer to
this. i believe there is a musians recovery plane that will get you bag to you
in 24 hours if you pay for that service.
Rick
From: Stonker7 <stonker7@aol...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: 24 Mar 2002 21:40:18 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>And remember the airlines
>only pay for lost baggage by the pound!
Rick,
There is a possibility your information might be incorrect. If you can provide
the airline with verifiable information stating the value of the property lost,
they should reimburse you the value of your property up to the stated amount on
your ticket.
Fred Albert
From: Stonker7 <stonker7@aol...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - Checking it thru?
Date: 24 Mar 2002 21:32:09 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>This raises an interesting question: With all the current rules
>about passengers having to fly with their baggage, if you get
>bumped from a flight, does your baggage still go without you?
Tom,
As I understand it, in the US and all US carriers wherever they may be in the
world, require all bags to travel with the passengers. This is because it is a
FAA reg which applies to all flights within the US, it's territories and all US
carriers. I know nothing about other counties airlines.
I do know if you get "bumped", your bag will be removed from the cargo area.
This takes a while and causes delays since a human being actually goes into the
cargo area of the aircraft to find "your" bag. But safety takes priority here,
not on time departure.
There are instances however, where a bag will travel without the passenger. But
only if it has been verified that the passenger has absolutely no way of
"planning" their absense from the aircraft, such as showing up conviently
"late" for a connecting flight.
Fred Albert
| flying with guitar - yes or no? (OT follow-up) [2] |
|---|
From: Julian Templeman <julian@templeman-consulting...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no? (OT follow-up)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:11:08 +0000
Organization: Customer of gradwell dot com Ltd
Dan said...
>I'd rate AK Airlines excellent
>whenever they have meaningful competition in their market, but in the
>several times I've been exposed to their monopoly corporate behavior in the
>Fairbanks and other markets, it ABSOLUTELY STINKS in terms of price, service
>and on-time record. Stinks very, very badly and I would use anyone else if
>I had the chance.
<rant>
I run into this a lot.
There's a small(ish) airline over here in the UK that says they want
to encourage business travellers, but who sets the weight limit for
carry on baggage to slightly less than the average laptop in a carry
case. I've lost count of the number of weary, late Sunday night
arguments with the check-in (uncomplimentary term deleted) who is
determined to check in my laptop so the luggage gorillas can dump it
on the tarmac. Now I take the laptop out, hand them the near-empty
case, they weigh it and hand it back. I then put laptop back in and
mosey along to the plane.
So if they're so hot on hand baggage, how come I'm always in line
behind the guy with a laptop bag, a pilot's case and a folding suit
carrier, which they have somehow missed?
</rant>
And Monsewer No Busking also said....
>There's a particular brand of gate agent that really LIKES this kinda
>thing (which is a real shame, because most of the gate agents I meet
>go out of their way to be pleasant and helpful, even in difficult
>circumstances).
Oh yes indeed, and I've met them on many occasions. I'm always very,
very polite to gate staff (almost as polite as I am to US Immigration
people :-) lest my luggage gets consigned to oblivion.
julian
Templeman Consulting Limited
London and North Wales
http://www.templeman-consulting.co.uk
From: gorblimey <persistent_offender@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: flying with guitar - yes or no? (OT follow-up)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:06:46 GMT
Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder)
Julian Templeman <<julian@templeman-consulting...>> wrote in message
news:<svih9ukmso138nf8r1uhhnhtf23ejfig32@4ax...>...
>
> And Monsewer No Busking also said....
>
> >There's a particular brand of gate agent that really LIKES this kinda
> >thing (which is a real shame, because most of the gate agents I meet
> >go out of their way to be pleasant and helpful, even in difficult
> >circumstances).
>
> Oh yes indeed, and I've met them on many occasions. I'm always very,
> very polite to gate staff (almost as polite as I am to US Immigration
> people :-) lest my luggage gets consigned to oblivion.
>
> julian
I guess I'm heading for a fall...
I have made 18 transatlantic flights over the last 2 years and dozens of
shorter ones, many times with a guitar. The first time I took one it was in
a cardboard case and I checked it (knew no better) it arrived unharmed.
Since then whenever I have had a guitar with me in a big plane I have had it
in a gigbag in the locker.
I've never even been challenged at the gate.
Pete (really good looking and dead sexy)
| traveling with guitar - a success story [5] |
|---|
From: chaya <chaya@san...>
Subject: traveling with guitar - a success story
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:58:26 GMT
Organization: RoadRunner - West
Before I left for EC5, someone asked about checking a guitar through. All I
can say is that thanks to the baggage handlers at American and the Calton
case, my guitar did great.
Of the four flights I was on, I only got to see the guitar loaded once - the
first flight out of San Diego. I was watching the baggage guy bouncing all
the suitcases on the ramp, and then he got to my guitar. He gently put it on
the ramp. If there wasn't such security right now, I would have tried to
bang the window to let him know how thankful I was.
When I got to Richmond, my guitar was the first piece out on the conveyor
belt - obviously someone made sure it arrived safely because the rest of my
luggage didn't come out till later in the process. I wish I had as nice a
story about arriving back in LA (long story) - but I did shove people aside
as the guitar came down the ramp to make sure I caught it before it hit
bottom.
A full review of the new guitar will come later.
csj
From: John Sorell <jsorell@infi...>
Subject: Re: traveling with guitar - a success story
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:14:55 -0700
Susan,
I carried my Dunwell in a Calton on United for TX-2. On the trip there, the
agent said there would be no problem carrying it on. On the return trip the
agent said I would have to check it. I demanded to gate check it, so he put
a baggage sticker on it and I carried it to the gate. When the flight
boarded I wrapped the baggage sticker around the handle and covered it with
my carrying hand. No one ever said a thing to me as I walked on board the
plane. I carried it on another United flight in January. I now check my bags
at the curbside check in to avoid the long lines at the ticket counter and
carry my guitar to the gate. If confronted I will demand a gate check. So
far, no one has said a thing.
I carried my Larivee Parlor to Boulder this week...no problem with it. Also,
I found the entire Parlor and gig bag fit in the Blue Heron gig bag I bought
from you. I'll be carrying it back to Seattle like that tomorrow. One less
thing to pay the movers for.
John
"chaya" <<chaya@san...>> wrote in message
news:SSmo8.547$<zN.160632@twister...>...
> Before I left for EC5, someone asked about checking a guitar through. All
I
> can say is that thanks to the baggage handlers at American and the Calton
> case, my guitar did great.
>
> Of the four flights I was on, I only got to see the guitar loaded once -
the
> first flight out of San Diego. I was watching the baggage guy bouncing all
> the suitcases on the ramp, and then he got to my guitar. He gently put it
on
> the ramp. If there wasn't such security right now, I would have tried to
> bang the window to let him know how thankful I was.
>
> When I got to Richmond, my guitar was the first piece out on the conveyor
> belt - obviously someone made sure it arrived safely because the rest of
my
> luggage didn't come out till later in the process. I wish I had as nice a
> story about arriving back in LA (long story) - but I did shove people
aside
> as the guitar came down the ramp to make sure I caught it before it hit
> bottom.
>
> A full review of the new guitar will come later.
>
> csj
>
>
From: Larry Pattis <LarryPattis@NoSpam...>
Subject: Re: traveling with guitar - a success story
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:39:53 -0700
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
In article <<20020327133534.28302.00000454@mb-fe...>>, Hojo2x
<<hojo2x@aol...>> wrote:
> Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> > I haven't flown in the past 6 months. Are most airports still
> allowing>curbside check-in? I'd heard that they aren't in New York.
>
>
> I was told that curbside check-in is no longer allowed at any US airports. I
> traveled last week and saw none at these airports: Anchorage, San Jose, KC, or
> Chicago O'Hare.
>
>
>
> Wade Hampton Miller
> Chugiak, Alaska
We DO have curbside check-in here in Salt Lake City, for Delta (we're a
Delta hub), and all of the other airlines. I believe that Denver also
has curbside, my wife is there on business right now.....
--
Larry Pattis
LP "at" LarryPattis "dot" com
From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: traveling with guitar - a success story
Date: 27 Mar 2002 19:02:30 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
<< I haven't flown in the past 6 months. Are most airports still allowing
curbside check-in? I'd heard that they aren't in New York.
Steve>>
They are again in upstate NY.
SEFSTRAT
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
From: Steve <sefstrat@aol...>
Subject: Re: traveling with guitar - a success story
Date: 27 Mar 2002 19:05:49 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> I haven't flown in the past 6 months. Are most airports still allowing
>curbside check-in? I'd heard that they aren't in New York.
Upstate NY allows it in Rochester/Syracuse/Buffalo.
ORD (Chicago O'Hare) has curbside check-in again---at least I know United does.
SEFSTRAT
music webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
| Another flying with guitar success [5] |
|---|
From: John Sorell <jwsorell@REMOVETHISattbi...>
Subject: Another flying with guitar success
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:18:54 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
I carried a OO 12 fret in a gigbag onboard USAirways this past week without
a problem. None of the agents or attendants said a word about it. I got a
little nervous when one passenger started to throw a heavy wheelie bag into
the overhead next to the guitar. I asked him to use caution and he was cool
about it.
It was great having a nice guitar along to keep me company. I haven't played
my OO in a long time. It was good to get reacquainted...what a fine guitar!
No wonder Greg Thomas likes his OO so much.
John
From: Larry Pattis <LarryPattis@NoSpam...>
Subject: Re: Another flying with guitar success
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:58:29 -0600
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
John Sorell <<jwsorell@REMOVETHISattbi...>> wrote:
> I carried a OO 12 fret in a gigbag onboard USAirways this past week without
> a problem. None of the agents or attendants said a word about it. I got a
> little nervous when one passenger started to throw a heavy wheelie bag into
> the overhead next to the guitar. I asked him to use caution and he was cool
> about it.
>
> It was great having a nice guitar along to keep me company. I haven't played
> my OO in a long time. It was good to get reacquainted...what a fine guitar!
> No wonder Greg Thomas likes his OO so much.
>
> John
I flew to the East Coast and back for my recent tour with El McMeen,
and walked on-board with an OM sized Calton case on both legs of the
journey.
No problems whatsoever.
Delta.
--
Larry Pattis
LP "at" LarryPattis "dot" com
From: John Sorell <jwsorell@REMOVETHISattbi...>
Subject: Re: Another flying with guitar success
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:15:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
Larry,
I did the same when I flew to TX-2. I carried a Dunwell OOO in a Calton on
board. Only problem I had was with the agent (United) in San Antonio. He
said I will have to check the guitar. I demanded to gate check it (I think I
told this story not too long ago....forgive me). He put a baggage tag on the
handle. When it came time to board I just wrapped the tag around the handle
and walked on board like it was something I do every day. No one said a word
except for one attendant who asked if I was going to play for them. I made
the usual comment about not wanting to get tossed out at 30,000 feet. You
surely would have gotten bumped to first class.
John
"Larry Pattis" <<LarryPattis@NoSpam...>> wrote in message
news:110520021758295270%<LarryPattis@NoSpam...>...
> John Sorell <<jwsorell@REMOVETHISattbi...>> wrote:
>
> > I carried a OO 12 fret in a gigbag onboard USAirways this past week
without
> > a problem. None of the agents or attendants said a word about it. I got
a
> > little nervous when one passenger started to throw a heavy wheelie bag
into
> > the overhead next to the guitar. I asked him to use caution and he was
cool
> > about it.
> >
> > It was great having a nice guitar along to keep me company. I haven't
played
> > my OO in a long time. It was good to get reacquainted...what a fine
guitar!
> > No wonder Greg Thomas likes his OO so much.
> >
> > John
>
>
>
> I flew to the East Coast and back for my recent tour with El McMeen,
> and walked on-board with an OM sized Calton case on both legs of the
> journey.
>
> No problems whatsoever.
>
> Delta.
>
> --
> Larry Pattis
> LP "at" LarryPattis "dot" com
>
> http://www.LarryPattis.com
From: John Sorell <jwsorell@REMOVETHISattbi...>
Subject: Re: Another flying with guitar success
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:05:04 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
I had a trip in January where I got singled out in the boarding line to get
the "random" search. I was carrying a Larivee Parlor in a gig bag. The guy
was very nice and apologetic about the necessity. He asked all the required
security questions and finally said, "I have one last question. Can you play
Smoke On The Water?"
John
ps...when I take Lola with me I make sure she goes with the checked baggage.
"Greg Thomas" <<gjthomas@earthlink...>> wrote in message
news:s3pD8.5308$<Nt3.394929@newsread2...>...
> Okay, I want to know how you guys really pull this off. I had to fly to
St
> Louis last month, got stopped at the gate, as I was boarding, luggage
> searched, off with the shoes, take off the belt, open your shirt. I was
half
> expecting some toothless San Quentinite to ask me to spend the night with
> him. Happened on the return flight as well. A few weeks ago I was coming
> back from Detroit and had the pleasure of flexing my pecs at the gate as
> the security "lady" waved her wand at me, while another one unfolded my
> dirty underwear for everyone in the free world to see. Geez, I almost get
> THE FULL BODY CAVITY SEARCH every time I fly, and you guys just waltz on
> board WITH YOUR GUITARS!!!??????? Fess up, who do you know?
>
> Greg
>
>
> "Larry Pattis" <<LarryPattis@NoSpam...>> wrote in message
> news:110520021758295270%<LarryPattis@NoSpam...>...
> > John Sorell <<jwsorell@REMOVETHISattbi...>> wrote:
> >
> > > I carried a OO 12 fret in a gigbag onboard USAirways this past week
> without
> > > a problem. None of the agents or attendants said a word about it. I
got
> a
> > > little nervous when one passenger started to throw a heavy wheelie bag
> into
> > > the overhead next to the guitar. I asked him to use caution and he was
> cool
> > > about it.
> > >
> > > It was great having a nice guitar along to keep me company. I haven't
> played
> > > my OO in a long time. It was good to get reacquainted...what a fine
> guitar!
> > > No wonder Greg Thomas likes his OO so much.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> >
> >
> > I flew to the East Coast and back for my recent tour with El McMeen,
> > and walked on-board with an OM sized Calton case on both legs of the
> > journey.
> >
> > No problems whatsoever.
> >
> > Delta.
> >
> > --
> > Larry Pattis
> > LP "at" LarryPattis "dot" com
> >
> > http://www.LarryPattis.com
> >
>
>
From: Michael DeLalla/Falling Mountain Music <delalla@fallingmountain...>
Subject: Re: Another flying with guitar success
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 00:56:12 GMT
Organization: Verio
Maybe it's the eager, anticipatory attitude I take when I say "You're gonna
search me, right?"
;-)
I've still never had a problem carrying on a guitar. This last tour I did,
on one leg of the trip I was asked to remove my shoes, and they did open the
case and spend a few minutes trying to figure out what was making their
machinery go off. Some demagnetizing-like wand thing eventually cleared me
and my guitar, onward with no problem.
I head West again this fall; I'll keep you posted. My feeling is, the law of
averages will catch up to me; therefore, I always go prepared to gate-check
the guitar. So far, so good....
--
Michael DeLalla/Falling Mountain Music
http://www.fallingmountain.com
"Greg Thomas" <<gjthomas@earthlink...>> wrote in message
news:s3pD8.5308$<Nt3.394929@newsread2...>...
> Okay, I want to know how you guys really pull this off. I had to fly to
St
> Louis last month, got stopped at the gate, as I was boarding, luggage
> searched, off with the shoes, take off the belt, open your shirt. I was
half
> expecting some toothless San Quentinite to ask me to spend the night with
> him. Happened on the return flight as well. A few weeks ago I was coming
> back from Detroit and had the pleasure of flexing my pecs at the gate as
> the security "lady" waved her wand at me, while another one unfolded my
> dirty underwear for everyone in the free world to see. Geez, I almost get
> THE FULL BODY CAVITY SEARCH every time I fly, and you guys just waltz on
> board WITH YOUR GUITARS!!!??????? Fess up, who do you know?
>
> Greg
>
>
> "Larry Pattis" <<LarryPattis@NoSpam...>> wrote in message
> news:110520021758295270%<LarryPattis@NoSpam...>...
> > John Sorell <<jwsorell@REMOVETHISattbi...>> wrote:
> >
> > > I carried a OO 12 fret in a gigbag onboard USAirways this past week
> without
> > > a problem. None of the agents or attendants said a word about it. I
got
> a
> > > little nervous when one passenger started to throw a heavy wheelie bag
> into
> > > the overhead next to the guitar. I asked him to use caution and he was
> cool
> > > about it.
> > >
> > > It was great having a nice guitar along to keep me company. I haven't
> played
> > > my OO in a long time. It was good to get reacquainted...what a fine
> guitar!
> > > No wonder Greg Thomas likes his OO so much.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> >
> >
> > I flew to the East Coast and back for my recent tour with El McMeen,
> > and walked on-board with an OM sized Calton case on both legs of the
> > journey.
> >
> > No problems whatsoever.
> >
> > Delta.
> >
> > --
> > Larry Pattis
> > LP "at" LarryPattis "dot" com
> >
> > http://www.LarryPattis.com
> >
>
>
| Let's collect our airplane information |
|---|
From: Hussman <dfhussey1@attbinospan...>
Subject: Let's collect our airplane information
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 17:27:37 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
Having been traveling a little with the guitar lately, and considering how
often people ask about traveling with the guitar, I'd like to compile a list
of aircraft that has ample room in overhead to store a dreadnaught acoustic
guitar case, or a list of locations in aircraft without ample room.
So far, I have the following, I've flown more, but I've forgotten some or
didn't travel with the guitar. I think the airline is needed, they all have
different configurations.
United Boeing 737--Overhead usable
United Airbus 320--Overhead usable
United Boeing 777--I couldn't fit mine in the overhead, but I could put it
on the floor in front of the bulkhead between business and coach.
American Boeing 737--Overhead usable
If you'd like to add to the list, mail me at dfhussey1 "at" attbi.com, when
I receive enough to post, I will.
Also, one note, I was told at security in Tulsa, OK to tell the check in
counter to pre-warn security that a guitar was coming through, I had to wait
five minutes for them to let me through because the case was bigger than the
X-ray (they wouldn't lift the shroud until they received confirmation from
the airlines.
Happy flying,
Dennis
| New guitar carry-on rules with Delta.... [11] |
|---|
From: Jay Adair <jabs@peoplepc...>
Subject: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:29:08 -0700
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
My wife, a 20 year flight attendant with Delta, just informed today that
guitars are no longer able to be carried on the plane by passengers. It was
always an "iffy" proposition, but now they are not supposed to be allowed
past the security checkpoint in the hands of the traveling public,
period.....which also eliminates the ability to "gate-check" the guitar -
which bypasses the airport's luggage transport system and usually resulted
in an agent hand carrying the guitar to the lower storage area of the jet.
Unknown if this policy is shared with other major carriers....
Jay (Have to start buying 'em closer to home)
From: No Busking <nobusking@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:28:29 GMT
Andy asked:
> I'm just curious......"not supposed to be
> allowed past the security checkpoint" ........there's more than one
carrier
> that goes through that particular checkpoint.....it's not exclusive to
> Delta...... no?
Exactly.
A Delta ticket agent can ask you to check your guitar while you're checking
luggage, but they don't have any control over what goes through the security
checkpoints (most of which are manned by federal employees these days).
FWIW...I did four flights on Northwest last week carrying a dreadnaught in a
hardshell case. No one gave me any trouble at all about carrying it on,
although the security agent at Dulles confiscated my wire clippers. It was
a silly mistake on my part to leave them in the case...I apologized, and he
was very courteous.
Still...always assume that you're going to have to check your guitar,
because it WILL happen at some point. My answer is to carry an instrument
that's not too valuable to lose.
--
Michael Pugh
From: Deverett2 <deverett2@aol...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: 16 Jul 2002 02:53:16 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Hi Michael and all,
I flew out of Dulles a few weeks ago, and ALL of the luggage that had been
checked went to Indianapolis instead of our Hartford destination - I was very
thankful not to have my guitar with me, which had been a tough decision. When
I got my luggage back it had been tossed and beat up pretty badly - many things
in my suitcase had been broken/crushed. Again, I was so thankful that I hadn't
taken my guitar, even with its Calton case - though I have heard of happy
endings in such situations.
Just read in the newspaper about some guy with a gun in a guitar case...
Donna
From: Jay Adair <jabs@peoplepc...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 06:32:57 -0700
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
"Amostagain" <<amostagain@aol...>> wrote in message
news:<20020715201429.24889.00000030@mb-ft...>...
> Jay Adair:
> << My wife, a 20 year flight attendant with Delta, just informed today
that
> guitars are no longer able to be carried on the plane by passengers. It
was
> always an "iffy" proposition, but now they are not supposed to be allowed
> past the security checkpoint in the hands of the traveling public,>>
>
> Well that sucks and of course I've checked it out with the wife's cousin
who's
> been a Delta flight attendant for 20 something years also and who also
takes a
> Baby T*ylor onboard..but she was off today & didn't see anything in her
company
> e-mails which doesn't mean squat but I'm just curious......"not supposed
to be
> allowed past the security checkpoint" ........there's more than one
carrier
> that goes through that particular checkpoint.....it's not exclusive to
> Delta...... no? I'm not disagreeing at all Im just wondering.
>
Supposedly, the policy is 2 weeks old - probably a July 1st start....
Since checkpoints are manned by the Feds now, it would seem to be a
all-carrier plan - but based on other's experiences, this doesn't seem the
case.
She was given this info in a company meeting at D/FW, unsure where it is "in
writing"......
I have flown to Boston, Nashville, and West Palm to buy guitars and have
always been lucky enough to have a flight attendant allow me (or her) carry
the guitar on-board and stash it in the coat closet up front. I guess those
days are gone...
Jay
From: No Busking <nobusking@yahoo...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:16 GMT
Rudi wrote:
> And anyway, to be honest I am all for banning lugging guitars on as
> hand luggage. Plenty of folks like us are basically honest people
> (except Tom from Texas), but these days the name of the game in air
> travel is safety; and I'm willing to take the risk of checking in my
> guitar if it means that lunatics have one less means of smuggling
> something nasty onboard.
Well...
With the X-ray machines they get a pretty good view of what's in the cases,
and they asked me to open my case and show them my guitar on a couple of the
flights. A large gun or bomb could be very easily detected...there's
nothing you could smuggle in a guitar case that couldn't also be hidden in a
purse, briefcase, or laptop case.
There may be lots of OTHER reasons to keep people from carrying guitars
onboard...like limited overhead storage capacity, threat of the instrument
falling out of the bin, etc., but those concerns aren't just limited to
guitar cases. I still see people carry on HUGE and heavy suitcases, and
hoist them over everyone's head like a hay bale.
If they want to crack down on guitar cases (which are, admittedly, generally
larger than carry-on guidelines), they need to apply the logic equally to
all baggage types. My impression is that this is generally the case. On
the few occasions that I've been prevented from carrying my guitar onboard,
I've noticed them monitoring other carry-on baggage as well...fair enough.
I'm all for keeping air travel safe, and I dutifully check my guitar
whenever asked, but guitar cases are no more dangerous than other pieces of
luggage.
BTW...I was subject to one of their "random searches" on the last flight.
It sure would be nice if they'd provide a screen or something to step
behind...it was a VERY thorough search (more than I've ever had when setting
off the alarm at the security gate). I find it a little humiliating to be
poked, patted-down, and spread eagle in front of my fellow passengers. They
even searched the inside of the waist on my jeans.
Of course, some people might like that sort of thing. ;-)
--
Michael Pugh
From: Hussman <dfhussey1@attbinospan...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:23:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
Really huh? That explains why security at Tulsa said that I had to confirm
the guitar coming through with the airline, I was flying with United, they
said fine.
Yet another reason for me not to fly Delta, a.k.a Doesn't Even Leave The
Airport (they're not that bad, but I've been routed through Atlanta way too
often to enjoy it).
Dennis
"Jay Adair" <<jabs@peoplepc...>> wrote in message
news:<uj6nia77lt52c3@corp...>...
> My wife, a 20 year flight attendant with Delta, just informed today that
> guitars are no longer able to be carried on the plane by passengers. It
was
> always an "iffy" proposition, but now they are not supposed to be allowed
> past the security checkpoint in the hands of the traveling public,
> period.....which also eliminates the ability to "gate-check" the guitar -
> which bypasses the airport's luggage transport system and usually resulted
> in an agent hand carrying the guitar to the lower storage area of the jet.
>
> Unknown if this policy is shared with other major carriers....
>
> Jay (Have to start buying 'em closer to home)
>
From: whirligig <look@this...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:26:10 -0700
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:28:46 -0700, Z. Skarland wrote
(in message <<5fcae8e1.0207191628.27ed5b9e@posting...>>):
> [...]
>
> I'm not following you here Rudi. How is a guitar case any more
> dangerous than a garmet bag or other carry on?
I'd see it as a hard case issue. In a hard landing the overhead catches could
come undone, so really it's a hard and/or heavy things landing on your head
issue. A guitar in a soft case isn't so lethal.
> I think airport safety
> rules need to make sense, not arbitrary for no reason.
I'm absolutely with you there.
> Show me how
> banning guitar cases makes any sense at all from a security standpoint
At the risk of catching flak I caught before, I think the issues are still
really about quicker pax loading/unloading and reduced gate time. If the
airlines lobby the feds to make the rules about cabin baggage tighter, all
said airlines have to do is wring their hands and say it's not their fault
your guitar gets buggered/lost whilst getting faster aircraft turnaround and
reducing the time the plane isn't earning.
From: whirligig <look@this...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:33:20 -0700
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:26:10 -0700, whirligig wrote
(in message <<01HW.B95E1852000155420C795B10@news...>>):
> [....]
Pardon me, forgot name and sig
Adrian
--
www.adrianlegg.com
>
>
From: Big Guy <brosseaut@sbcglobal...>
Subject: Re: New guitar carry-on rules with Delta....
Date: 21 Jul 2002 03:07:34 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
"Hussman" <<dfhussey1@attbinospan...>> wrote in message news:<sj6Z8.562674$<cQ3.52504@sccrnsc...>>...
> Really huh? That explains why security at Tulsa said that I had to confirm
> the guitar coming through with the airline, I was flying with United, they
> said fine.
>
> Yet another reason for me not to fly Delta, a.k.a Doesn't Even Leave The
> Airport (they're not that bad, but I've been routed through Atlanta way too
> often to enjoy it).
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> "Jay Adair" <<jabs@peoplepc...>> wrote in message
> news:<uj6nia77lt52c3@corp...>...
> > My wife, a 20 year flight attendant with Delta, just informed today that
> > guitars are no longer able to be carried on the plane by passengers. It
> was
> > always an "iffy" proposition, but now they are not supposed to be allowed
> > past the security checkpoint in the hands of the traveling public,
> > period.....which also eliminates the ability to "gate-check" the guitar -
> > which bypasses the airport's luggage transport system and usually resulted
> > in an agent hand carrying the guitar to the lower storage area of the jet.
> >
> > Unknown if this policy is shared with other major carriers....
> >
> > Jay (Have to start buying 'em closer to home)
Southwest just let me carry on a Larrivee Parlor and put it in the
overhead bin. Dallas to Orlando and back. H